Hagee is big one!

He sure is one of the more vocal advocates out there.  Another couple of big names are Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

I believe Pat Robertson recently put his foot in his mouth when he said that what recently happened to the Israeli Prime Minister was because he gave up some Israeli land.  He of course got into some hot water with his remarks.

I use to watch Hagee, Benny Hinn, Morris Cerello, etc once upon a time.  My life has been more peaceful when I finally stopped watching and listening to these authority figures.  lol.

They do not want to see the destruction of Israel! They want to see Israel convert to Christianity and be victorious.
They do truly think that they love the Jewish people and believe that Jesus will save them by showing himself to them in some special way during the "tribulation".
They are guilty of loving the Jews more than they love Jesus, if you ask me - not guilty of wishing to destroy Israel.

Hagee was/is one who would advise christians not to try and convert Jews.  His belief system didn't allow him to agree with christians prostelizing or preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to Israel.  One reason that he used was that they have become blinded to the gospel by God's will and so telling them the good news was useless.

Perhaps my error is in grouping them all together into one lump.  But take my word for it, there are those out there who believe that they should be destroyed for killing Jesus.  And what better way to do this than to help them set up those end-time conditions?

To me the Jewish temple itself is an affront to Jesus and no Christian should have any part in seeing it rebuilt. But equally we should not seek to stop it either, except thru preaching the truth that Jesus paid the price once and for all.
IMHO it is a denial of the work of the cross to sacrifice in the Jewish temple.

I totally agree.  Its too bad that many christians do encourage the idea that the Jews need their temple and so they support it by voice, and perhaps one day, by action?

I've read in a certian writing (while surfing the net) that it may not be long before christian prostelizing or literature will be dis-allowed within the Israeli borders.  If true (or is it true now?),  I'm sure Hagee would be all smiles!?!

Zionism says that God is pleased with Israel (since 1948), and some how the rules that apply to all Christians, do not apply to Israel! It basically says that Jesus is the sacrifice for Gentile sins - but Jews have their own way.
How else could they say that God to have a Jewish temple?
And if they know that God would not accept temple service, why do they participate in setting up circumstances for it to be rebuild. That is assisting in idolatry. It is most certainly double minded.

Yes.  Dementia?  If a christian is to really help the Jew, I believe it would be in voicing to them that their hope, heritage and promises are in Jesus Christ and not some land and temple.  I believe this was the gospel preached when the first church was birthed and should always be the christian message.

I believe there are christian goups out there who genuinely want to help the Jews.  But it is quite different from those christian camps that look forward to seeing a temple in Jerusalem again.

To me Christianity is right and everything else is wrong. True love means speaking the truth even when it isn't pretty. Jesus called us to love people - all people - and to share the truth.

I recently tried telling this to one christian group and I was hushed.  lol.  It was not a ZIONist group, mind you...

Anyways, I was thinking of something, and which has to do with some/many christians who desire a temple for the Jewish people again.  IF the book of Revelation is for things yet future, perhaps the message is for christians and that we should not be participating in this end time delusion?  What I mean is this..

I do believe that the Babylon in the book of Revelation is the Jewish world (that is - their heirchy system and temple practices).   And christians are called to "come out of her".  IF this be true, then perhaps we should take heed?  Just a thought that came to me!  (shrugs)

G.

I guess Christion Zionist will be put in my list of stupid christian groups. Too bad most baptist were already in it.

Nojc.  That was an interesting read.  You CANNOT be proven false...of course...since it hasn't come true YET...but I bet this will NEVER come true in our future?  Confused?  I'll come back to this later.  

G.

Heh... all this talk of third temples and Antichrist and such is quite fascinating... watching people endlessly bat around this issue can be quite thought-provoking. Will there be an Antichrist sitting in the third temple? Will there even be a third temple at all? Is Christianity hodgepodge while the Orthodox Jews were right all along? Is it all just one big compound word that starts with "bull" and ends in excrement? I guess there's no way to know 'til it all happens (or DOESN'T happen, as the case may be).

Ah, I haven't even introduced myself. My name is Deep Thought, and I will be popping into these forums whenever I feel the urge to duke it out on the battlefield of philosophical reasoning. I probably won't have time for much--I'm busy with my girlfriend and my senior year of high school and I'd much rather spend my free time with my trust PlayStation 2--but I'll swing by on occasion.

As for religious alignment? Purely agnostic. When I do say something it'll probably be to shake a finger at poor debating. Nothing anyone says to me can possibly sway my opinions in favor or against the concept of a god or gods (much less toward any given religion) because I've already resolved in my mind to go examine all the historical and scientific evidence/opinions/etc. I can get my hands on to figure it all out on my own. I'm also quite familiar with the basics of Christianity (both Catholic and not), and know some things of Judaism as well. (I take it from other posts I've read that nojc4me is a Noachide? I look forward to seeing his take on Christianity, and how his opponents react to them.)

This is officially my first post. So howdy, and let the games begin.

And by the way...

I am a stolid believer in the concept of forty-two.

Just what in hades does that mean?

I have no earthly idea.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here who's read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

uot;TheAtheistHeratic"]I guess Christion Zionist will be put in my list of stupid christian groups. Too bad most baptist were already in it.

Pardon me, but I'm interested to know... why do you attach the word "stupid" to Christian groups? (It has a tone of generalization, as in, "All Christian groups are stupid + this is a Christian group = this is a stupid Christian group." That may just be my incorrect reading of it, but that's what it sounds like.) I don't particularly believe Christianity... seems really fake to me... but... I don't think I've ever called it "stupid" or any similar adjective. Farfetched, perhaps. A little loony, if considering certain... ah... overzealous individuals, shall we say? But stupid? Scathing. Why say "stupid?" I realize this may be off-topic, so PM me or open a new thread topic if you think it necessary.[/i]

Zagzagel:

Yes, I'm quite familiar with that school of thought, though I admit I've never done enough digging to know exactly where that logic comes from.

As for Matt 24? It very much sounds as though it should have come true already, but I don't think it has (not entirely, at least). Then again, you're talking to someone who hasn't yet decided to believe in Jesus' prophecies, so...

In any case, it's been a while since I've read the Gospels, so I'd have to dig my old Bibles out of the general chaos that is my highly disorganized bedroom. I'm not sure exactly what that prophecy and its other-gospel duplicates say.

To Zagzagel:  You are so right, this is a sick movement with the aim of bringing about the last world war!  I was brought up in Christian churches that claimed to accept the sacrifice of Jesus for all sins, but promoted the building of the last temple for the Jews to sacrifice animals!  It always left me with a sick feeling in my stomach!

  The whole purpose of Jesus was to provide a path to forgiveness of sin WITHOUT blood sacrifice!  It was not really God who wanted blood sacrifice, but HUMANS who wouldn't give it up!  Essentially, God was saying to humans,  "I will give you the sacrifice of my only son.  That is the last sacrifice, and if you don't accept that, and ONLY that, you will burn in hell for eternity!"

  I would suggest a book that will make this very clear.  It is "Human Sacrifice in History and Today" by Nigel Davis.   It traces blood sacrifice down through the centuries and empasizes that it came to a halt only with the coming of Jesus Christ, and only in the countries that accepted him!

Israel and Palestine, either they should both exist or neither should as a nation.