It has been said on another board, "Knowledge can only be formed from the truth." To which I would respond, there is more "knowledge" formed from ignorance, than ever was formed from truth. "Flat Earth;" Earth center of universe;" Religious parameters; Church mandates; political blunders, all of which were considered "truth" by their adherents. That is because they do not understand the "truth" about "PROOF."

What would you consider "proof?" There is no such thing, you know. Or, maybe you don't know. So let me be first to tell you. There is no such thing as proof. You cannot "prove" your great-great-great-grand-ancestors existed. You say you ARE the proof? But what if your great-great- grandancestors were the "Adam and Eve" of some mythology? How then would you "prove" it NOT to be the case? Family history? But that is simply testimony, and testimony proves nothing. Historical accounts? Again, that is written testimony and testinony proves nothing.

Testimony however, is the BEST evidence. Many think experience is the best evidence, but it is the most highly subjective, as only you can experience a thng. If seventeed people experience a thing, you will get eventeen DIFFERENT accounts as to what it is you have experienced. See what I mean? But courts of law depend not upon experience, but testimony ABOUT that experience. And testimony as to the significance of what that experience means.

Proof is not a reality. It is an abstract; it is a conclusion reached from evaluating evidence.

As we each evaluate evidence in a different way; and as each of us has to rely on different experiences, background educations, even our inter-relationships, we cannot evaluate evidence exactly the same way.

This is where a concept called "concensus" comes into play. If a greater number of "evidence evaluators" (The individual "you's") seem to approach one conclusion, over another, if sufficient agreement is reached, we tend to conclude something has been "proved."

Take two possibilities as regards God.
A) Exist; Then...  B) not exist.

If A)... then not B); If not A... then B)

If God exists, we have no way of testing the posit. We cannot rely upon empirical evidence, as it does not apply. We cannot measure, nor weigh God, nor can we limit, nor free Him. We can establish no parameters in any capacity whatsoever.

The "Thomistic Reality" fails in that it only leads to an ever wider circle of questions. For, even if you discover "Thomistically" that God is a reality, you still know absolutely nothing about him, except for his "Thomistic" cause. He then becomes an effect of our own logical premise.

But, if God reveals Himself to us, we can then weigh the evidence of what he tells us, against what results from what He tells us.

Back to "If not God - then" ...What?

So, Back to ...B) not exist

If God does not exist, we must start with Three basic assumptions;
1) Since matter exists, Matter must have always existed
2) since Energy exists, Energy must have always existed
3) Energy somehow acted upon matter, causing a reaction, which concluded in all that we now "thomistically" see, and examine empirically, as evidence.

Or "Assume" God. Since we cannot "find out" God, for he tells us he is "past finding out," suppose we simply listen to what he has to say about himself, and put THAT to the test.
     
Remembering, we have no way of testing HIM. But we are told to test his word. "Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good," the Apostle tells us. [1 Thes 5:21] This nderstands of course that consensus occurs and is accepted as proof, which is an abstract. But even God said, "come let us reason together" [Isa 1:18]; so I feel safe in using "Proof" in a way that lends credence to an abstract concept.

Now to our original argument, as relates to "Proving" the existance of God. It can't be done!

I believe I can, however, show enough evidence to believe that what God says about himself, is more reasonable than to assume B) Not God over A) God

Or to put it another way.

It is more reasonable (Come let us reason together saith the Lord) to assume God; and then look to God as He reveals to us about Himself; than it is to assume Not-God; and try to find answers in science, or man's reason, or logic, as to where the concepts of Soul, Guilt, Forgiveness, conscience and such like, come from. They are neither energy, nor matter; Thus could NOT have come about from Energy acting upon Matter. There HAS TO BE another explanation.

And God is much easier to work with than non-existant evidence. We at least have His cooperation in our search for truth.

Often we first become discouraged, then frustrated; finally Futility enters our thoughts, as we seek truth against a barrage of "authorities." Doctors of Theology; men with lists of degrees behind their names; Schools of great reputation making lofty pronouncements; Long Histories of doctrine offered as evidence. Empiricists, galore; And so it goes.

But God said, "Come, let "US" reason together. You and God. Not WE and God. God wants you to reason with HIM. God does however have one ally, who is a constant companion to Him, and dear to his heart. It is Wisdom. Wisdom tells us in Proverbs eight, of her origin. Before God did anything else, He brought forth Wisdom, who was present when God created, in the beginning. It was to Wisdom God spoke when He said "Let us make man in our image." [Gen 1:26]

We then, are made in the Image of God and Wisdom. Is it any wonder we stand and gaze hungrily towards the heavens, not looking for a big bang to satisfy our soul's longing; But rather, looking to our maker, for comfort in a very difficult and trying existence?

No Sir! I cannot "prove" the existence of God. But I sure derive a great deal of comfort in the evidence that has come my way, and in the understanding He has given me.

No Sir! I cannot "prove" God wrote the bible, but if I accept the existence of God, I must turn to him for understanding, and that comes only from what he tells us about himself. And he tells us that he wrote the bible.

Concerning what Jesus taught, God says in Deut 18:18 - "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, (Moses) and will put MY WORDS in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I command him."

Concerning the men who ar eperceived as authors of scripture -
Isaiah 51:16 states - "And I have put MY WORDS (logos) in thy mouth..."
Jer 1:9 Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, "Behold, I have put my (logos) WORDS in thy mouth."
Many other verses proclaim the same thing; According to the prophets themselves, who disclaim all originality, It is God's word that the prophets proclaimed. Of course this could be a matter of collusion, but examinatin of the claims will soon point out the truth or falsity of that conundrum.

Concerning what was written, Exo 24:4 says, "And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord..." and verse 12; And the Lord said unto Moses, come up to me into the mount, and be there. And I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I HAVE WRITTEN; that thou mayest teach them. And Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, WRITTEN WITH THE FINGER OF GOD. Exo 34:27

And the Lord said unto Moses, WRITE THOU THESE WORDS: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. With MANY other words, God testifies as to his authorship of his book. So, God tells us he wrote the bible, and who is there among us who can "prove" that NOT to be the case?

God told us he would raise up a Jew from among Israel who would be their brother, and who would speak only what he was commanded of God to speak. [Deut 18:15,18]

Even Jesus said "I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak." [John 12:49]

and

"Whatsoever I speak therfore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." [John 12:50]

God testified that he would raise up his servant to free Israel to return to the land, where they would rebuild the temple, and the walls of Jerusalem. He wrote this over two hundred years prior to the event. He further stated that the king of the nation in which Israel would be captive, would pay all expenses, and encourage the Israelites on the journey. To further add to the "evidence" he said he would name the king two hundred plus years befor ehe is born, so that when the event takes place, he will know that "I am God." The kings name was CYRUS, king of Persia, and he did exactly as the prophets had prophesied. That constitutes strong evidence in my mind.

The strange thing about it is, that you also can find comfort in His word. Just quit looking to the denominational doctrines, and start reading, praying, weeping, whatever it takes, and He will show you. That is the very first thing promised to all men. SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND!

God said it.

I believe it.

That settles it.

 - And -

I am - Overwhelmed by the evidence for his being - and - I am amazed by the overabundance of evidence for his authorship of his book.

What do you consider "Proof?" This is "Proof" enough for me.

And the greatest blessing he has bestowed, in my humble opinion, is that he that knows me best, loves me anyway.