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Author Topic: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory  (Read 3949 times)

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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2008, 10:49:50 PM »
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Actually, only the public call it a fact... in science it is called a theory,

If only!  Michael Ruse, for example, said "Evolution is a fact, Fact, FACT!" and Gould has a whole thing justifying the proposition that yes, it is a theory, but it is also a fact- http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_fact-and-theory.html

Have you read Richard Dawkins?  Check this one out.  Scroll for 'fact.'  http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/sep/01/schools.research
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Tony N

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2008, 09:02:00 AM »
The main weakness I see in the **theory** of  evolution is that there is really no verifiable evidence that life began for millions of *different* creatures in some primordial soup of of sludge pond by a couple rather clever single celled amoebas.

How did those single celled amoebas get the intelligence to figure out the millions of different diversities inherrent in the animal kingdom? All the different bugs, winged creatures, water creatures, mammals etc?

It just takes too much faith for me to believe in the religion of evolution.
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Copernicus

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2008, 12:52:42 PM »
Quote from: Tony N on October 20, 2008, 09:02:00 AM
The main weakness I see in the **theory** of  evolution is that there is really no verifiable evidence that life began for millions of *different* creatures in some primordial soup of of sludge pond by a couple rather clever single celled amoebas.

There is a vast amount of verifiable evidence to support evolution theory, and that is why there is a scientific consensus in favor of it.  The problem is that you really do not know very much at all about what the theory of evolution is, Tony.  For example, you mistakenly believe that more complex forms of life all evolved from single-cell amoebas, although that is not a claim made by evolutionists.  An amoeba is just one type of single-celled organism.  Moreover, you seem to think that there was some kind of intelligence guiding the process of evolution, yet the whole point is that the process is unguided by any intelligent planning.

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How did those single celled amoebas get the intelligence to figure out the millions of different diversities inherrent in the animal kingdom? All the different bugs, winged creatures, water creatures, mammals etc?

They did not.  You would only ask such a question if you fundamentally misunderstood what it is that the theory of evolution has had to say about the rise of biological complexity.

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It just takes too much faith for me to believe in the religion of evolution.

I can understand why.  You have little or no idea of how evolution works, so it would be a leap of faith for you to accept it as truth.  You would need less faith if you put in the time to understand the theory. 
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Tony N

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2008, 08:18:14 AM »
Quote from: Copernicus on October 20, 2008, 12:52:42 PM
I can understand why.  You have little or no idea of how evolution works, so it would be a leap of faith for you to accept it as truth.  You would need less faith if you put in the time to understand the theory. 

Dear Copernicus, thanks for replying. I say this not to antagonize you but I really want to know: Just where did all the millions of different critters come from, from bed bugs to giant dynasaurs to fish to invertebrates etc. etc. etc.? Did they come to be fully formed? If not, how did they all start? I'm talking about MILLIONS of different species, Copernicus.

Surely you know exactly how evolution works and are going to inform us exactly, scientifically, provably, how all these millions of different species came into being. I'm ready. Consider me your student. Persuade me.
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)

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Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).

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Copernicus

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2008, 01:28:29 PM »
Quote from: Tony N on October 21, 2008, 08:18:14 AM
Dear Copernicus, thanks for replying. I say this not to antagonize you but I really want to know: Just where did all the millions of different critters come from, from bed bugs to giant dynasaurs to fish to invertebrates etc. etc. etc.? Did they come to be fully formed? If not, how did they all start? I'm talking about MILLIONS of different species, Copernicus.

You greatly underestimate the number of different species.  The question you ask can be found in any standard introduction to biology.  The problem is not that you lack the ability to find answers, but you lack the will to listen to them.  Why are you asking such a fundamental question in an internet discussion forum?  Do you expect to get a better answer from me than you can get from a biology textbook? 

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Surely you know exactly how evolution works and are going to inform us exactly, scientifically, provably, how all these millions of different species came into being. I'm ready. Consider me your student. Persuade me.

Tony, you need a lot more in-depth explanation on this subject than I could possibly give you.  The absolute best source on this subject that you could find would be Richard Dawkins' classic book The Blind Watchmaker.  It is a very well-written book that has received very high marks from others.  However, I doubt that you have the patience or desire to wade through it.  It fundamentally contradicts most of what you believe, and it is written by one of the most demonized atheists on the planet.  Perhaps you would find Kenneth Miller a more credible source, since he is a devout Christian who strongly believes in the theory of evolution.  There are quite a few links to discussions of evolution on the page I linked to for Miller.  More importantly, he explains how it is a Christian might reconcile evolution theory with faith in God.  Dawkins approves of Miller's writings on evolution, but he strongly disagrees with Miller's view that evolution can be reconciled with religious faith.
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bob.appleyard

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2009, 10:04:09 AM »
With regards to the notion of evolution as a fact, or as a theory, there are two things going on here.

There is evolution, that is the change in the distribution of phenotypes (visible biological characteristics) within a population over time. This would be difficult to dispute as a fact. After all, you are not identical to either of your parents.

There are then attempts to explain it. These are called "theories of evolution," and there are several, although it is usually taken as a given that the dominant one, the so-called "Theory of Evolution," a modification of what Darwin proposed, is what is referred to. It's actually a synthesis of the ideas of Darwin and Mendel, plus some tweaking.

There are clearly weaknesses in the theory. As with all scientific theories, it depends on a simplified model of the universe, and so cannot explain everything. The theory is always being scrutinised and modified, for instance recently the notion of "punctuated equilibrium" has come to the fore. It would take a professional evolutionary biologist to enumerate these weaknesses fairly and accurately, and it would present difficulties to the layperson due to the amount of assumed knowledge, jargon and so forth.

It remains the most probable explanation for the diversity of life on Earth. More precisely, it explains the following set of observations:

  • There is diversity in living forms. Flies are different from poppies.
  • Those differences can be inherited. Any children that I might sire are much more likely to be humans with pale skin than flies.
  • There is a struggle for survival. Not every living thing will be able to survive and sire children.

Come up with a better explanation for those observations than what we've got right now, wait twenty or so years, and collect your Nobel Prize.
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stathei

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2009, 09:42:51 PM »
As I understand it, evolution is a fact, best explained by the theory of natural selection.
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End Bringer

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2009, 10:02:05 PM »
Quote from: stathei on August 11, 2009, 09:42:51 PM
As I understand it, evolution is a fact, best explained by the theory of natural selection.

Depends on what you mean by "evolution". If you're talking about butterflies changing color or horses having longer legs then sure, no one really disputes that and it's even refrenced in the Bible both explicitly and implicitly. If you're talking about millions of years turning sludge into human beings, then you're wrong about it being a "fact". The former can be witnessed and confirmed, while the latter can't. Like bob indicated it depends on what you mean specificly, and more often than not you'll find some who will use bait-and-switch tactics to argue that one proves the other.
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bob.appleyard

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2009, 08:38:42 PM »
Quote from: End Bringer on August 11, 2009, 10:02:05 PM
Quote from: stathei on August 11, 2009, 09:42:51 PM
As I understand it, evolution is a fact, best explained by the theory of natural selection.

Depends on what you mean by "evolution". If you're talking about butterflies changing color or horses having longer legs then sure, no one really disputes that and it's even refrenced in the Bible both explicitly and implicitly. If you're talking about millions of years turning sludge into human beings, then you're wrong about it being a "fact". The former can be witnessed and confirmed, while the latter can't. Like bob indicated it depends on what you mean specificly, and more often than not you'll find some who will use bait-and-switch tactics to argue that one proves the other.

Your distinction between "butterflies changing colour" (a change in phenotypes within a population over time) and "sludge turning into human beings" (a change in phenotypes within a population over time) is completely arbitrary.
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End Bringer

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2009, 04:37:09 PM »
Quote from: bob.appleyard on August 29, 2009, 08:38:42 PM
Your distinction between "butterflies changing colour" (a change in phenotypes within a population over time) and "sludge turning into human beings" (a change in phenotypes within a population over time) is completely arbitrary.

Not even hardly, given that such changes for the butterfly are with already existing DNA, while 'sludge-turn-to-human' needs genetic material to be created. The two are as different as night and day.
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Pixie

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2009, 12:43:04 PM »
If you know anything about life ("you" in the general term) and the way it functions, you have to admit that we live in one well-ordered life. Everything has a purpose, even the little insects. Humans can't even begin to design a robot with capabilities of an insect. Every creature on the planet has their own defense mechanism, they know how to find food, etc. Everything in life has an order.

So HOW ON EARTH do you get something so completely full of ORDER by CHANCE, like evolution claims? Doesn't it seem ironic that one acidental occurance has created a world where nothing occurs accidentally?
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PhilC

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2010, 08:34:24 AM »
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Macro-evolution is unprovable and therefore unfalsifiable because such large amounts of time are involved.

...erm no.  The evidence is there, and it's falsifiable.  Specific predictions can be made from the ToE about what we will see in the evidence.  If those predictions are met then it is falsifiable but NOT falsified.

Creationism/ID makes no falsifiable predictions.  Whatever is seen is seen because that is how God chose to do it.
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PhilC

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Re: Weaknesses in the Evolution Theory
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2010, 04:03:58 AM »
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There are then attempts to explain it. These are called "theories of evolution," and there are several, although it is usually taken as a given that the dominant one, the so-called "Theory of Evolution," a modification of what Darwin proposed, is what is referred to. It's actually a synthesis of the ideas of Darwin and Mendel, plus some tweaking.

As with all scientific theories, it depends on a simplified model of the universe, and so cannot explain everything. The theory is always being scrutinised and modified, for instance recently the notion of "punctuated equilibrium" has come to the fore. It would take a professional evolutionary biologist to enumerate these weaknesses fairly and accurately, and it would present difficulties to the layperson due to the amount of assumed knowledge, jargon and so forth.

This is not a bad attempt to look at the issues involved and Bob should be congratulated in wht he has put.

This is excellent:
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the so-called "Theory of Evolution," a modification of what Darwin proposed, is what is referred to. It's actually a synthesis of the ideas of Darwin and Mendel, plus some tweaking...The theory is always being scrutinised and modified, for instance recently the notion of "punctuated equilibrium" has come to the fore

I would argue that a simplified model of the universe is not required, unless one is talking about population genetics where the mathematical formulae will produce nice clean figures, whereas nature is messy.

When discussing how mammals evolved from reptiles, though, then the theory explains the evidence in a way that creationism cannot, precisely because creation does not make predictions about what the evidence can and cannot show, whereas evolution does.
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