Topic: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care? (Read 2391 times)

Trent · « **on:** May 10, 2008, 01:07:41 AM »

Here's the question: does the answer to the question of why the universe exists, why life exists, why anything exists, or any variant of the Question To End All Questions concern you? If so, how much and why? If not, why?

I'll punch in with my answer when I'm feeling less drowsy and a little more articulate.

Copernicus · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2008, 11:05:25 AM »

Too many choices, and I would have preferred a question like "Does the universe have a meaning or purpose?" I care enough about that question to answer "probably not". Asking me whether I care about the question is not precisely the same thing as asking me what I believe about the universe. Now an even more interesting question is "What is the purpose of God?" I believe that God actually does have a purpose--to empower humans.

Trent · « **Reply #2 on:** May 11, 2008, 01:16:19 AM »

What I wanted to know, though, was how people feel about the significance of the question. A certain man who badgered me at work one day--I've mentioned him before, the one who I was simply too durned polite to shoo away--placed a good deal of emphasis on the question, and the entire time he was talking about it I was thinking wearily, Is it really such a big deal? Really? Does it matter how or why we're here, when you boil it down? Isn't the fact that we're here enough?

Pondering the question during a bored hour or two some weeks later (my PlayStation 2 had finally thrown in the towel, so I was without my number-one passtime), I decided I didn't care beyond the fact that it was interesting to think about. It's a mild curiosity, like a Rubik's Cube. I fiddle with it, but I don't really care if I match the colors up or not. I don't disregard it, but it doesn't bother me at all. I wonder if that's a good mindset to have. I wanted to see what others have to say on the matter.

EDIT: I would also like to add that the poll was an afterthought. The thread itself was intended to be the primary means by which the answer was given. So if anyone who answers could answer in their own words, that'd be awesome. Of course, if you don't want to, that's fine, too.

Who answered "My life has no meaning without an answer to that question," I wonder? And if they would be willing, why do they feel that way?

End Bringer · « **Reply #3 on:** May 11, 2008, 02:57:39 PM »

Quote from: Copernicus on May 10, 2008, 11:05:25 AM

Now an even more interesting question is "What is the purpose of God?" I believe that God actually does have a purpose--to empower humans.

So does atheism. In fact it empowers humans even more as it has humans taking God's place.

Copernicus · « **Reply #4 on:** May 11, 2008, 04:36:27 PM »

Quote from: End Bringer on May 11, 2008, 02:57:39 PM

So does atheism. In fact it empowers humans even more as it has humans taking God's place.

Without the magic and the superpowers, I don't think that it is quite as empowering as you think.

Trent · « **Reply #5 on:** May 11, 2008, 05:01:29 PM »

That's off-topic, but I'd have to disagree with your assessment of atheism, EB. "Putting humans in God's place" may be what some atheists do with aspects of their belief outside of the simple lack of belief in God, but it is not something inherent to atheism. I, for example, simply see a lack of God as a lack of any real "empowerment" for humanity--since humans are essentially no more significant than any other animal under such a view, with no father figure or higher power putting their apparent focus on them, the humans are in fact just as small in relation to the universe as they appear to be--microscopic, in other words. Not an altogether empowering thought, is it?

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #6 on:** May 11, 2008, 07:51:09 PM »

I think Cop feels empowered by his atheism.

Copernicus · « **Reply #7 on:** May 11, 2008, 08:40:28 PM »

Quote from: sntjohnny on May 11, 2008, 07:51:09 PM

I think Cop feels empowered by his atheism.

Only over fundamentalists. *sigh*

End Bringer · « **Reply #8 on:** May 11, 2008, 09:39:21 PM »

Quote from: Trent on May 11, 2008, 05:01:29 PM

That's off-topic, but I'd have to disagree with your assessment of atheism, EB. "Putting humans in God's place" may be what some atheists do with aspects of their belief outside of the simple lack of belief in God, but it is not something inherent to atheism. I, for example, simply see a lack of God as a lack of any real "empowerment" for humanity--since humans are essentially no more significant than any other animal under such a view, with no father figure or higher power putting their apparent focus on them, the humans are in fact just as small in relation to the universe as they appear to be--microscopic, in other words. Not an altogether empowering thought, is it?

That's part of the contradicting nature of atheism. It calls for people to be empowered by their insignificance. It inherently says we are no more significant than any other creature on Earth/universe while simultaneously failing to answer why we shouldn't act like every other animal in that murdering, rapeing, and eating each other would be allowed and encouraged under such a view, but such acts are generally discouraged even by atheists and people generally are put in jail for commiting such acts. It says there are no rules so we are simultaneously free to do whatever we want, yet not free to do whatever we want.

Switching to the theistic side of the line, while Cop. sights God as a means of empowerment (no doubt thinking of cases where 'God's will' was/is used to justify acts), theists don't have this inherently 'empowered' attitude either. Theism inherently teaches that there is an infinite Being far more powerful than us, while we as finite beings are clumps of dust in the cosmos He/She/It created. And in the case of a personal God, as Christianity holds, it says that omnipotent Being with the power to create a universe has His attention on what we clumps of dust are doing. Not exactly an altogether empowering thought either, is it?

Trent · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2008, 12:04:18 AM »

Quote from: End Bringer on May 11, 2008, 09:39:21 PM

That's part of the contradicting nature of atheism. It calls for people to be empowered by their insignificance. It inherently says we are no more significant than any other creature on Earth/universe while simultaneously failing to answer why we shouldn't act like every other animal in that murdering, rapeing, and eating each other would be allowed and encouraged under such a view, but such acts are generally discouraged even by atheists and people generally are put in jail for commiting such acts. It says there are no rules so we are simultaneously free to do whatever we want, yet not free to do whatever we want.

Very astute of you to acknowledge that atheism leaves morality up to the individual... that is what you were acknowledging, isn't it?

One correction: "encouraged," no. "Allowed," yes--by the view itself, which assumes no ethical overpower beyond humanity itself. Going into why an atheist would, or wouldn't, follow a moral code of some kind is far too off-track for my liking however, so if you'd like to continue on that track, find yourself another thread or make one.

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Switching to the theistic side of the line, while Cop. sights God as a means of empowerment (no doubt thinking of cases where 'God's will' was/is used to justify acts), theists don't have this inherently 'empowered' attitude either. Theism inherently teaches that there is an infinite Being far more powerful than us, while we as finite beings are clumps of dust in the cosmos He/She/It created. And in the case of a personal God, as Christianity holds, it says that omnipotent Being with the power to create a universe has His attention on what we clumps of dust are doing. Not exactly an altogether empowering thought either, is it?

That there is an infinite Being far more powerful than us who created us and who cares about us and wants us to follow his ways and eventually come to him... that is empowering in the sense that it makes humanity feel important. A deistic view would not nearly be so ego-boosting, let alone an atheistic one. That the Creator of All would place so much focus on us "clumps of dust" would tend to make said clumps feel more significant than clumps of dust would otherwise have any right to feel. Especially when such views include ideas like "the universe was made for life on Earth" or however you said it. It's empowering even as it humbles. I suppose a similar statement could be made about atheism, but whether it's applicable depends more on the individual atheist.

End Bringer · « **Reply #10 on:** May 12, 2008, 12:30:41 PM »

Quote from: Trent on May 12, 2008, 12:04:18 AM

Very astute of you to acknowledge that atheism leaves morality up to the individual... that is what you were acknowledging, isn't it?

Yes, though there are atheists that argue that their are objective moral laws without a moral Lawmaker, but such arguments never work. But that's why I said it's a contradicting aspect of atheism. It teaches that your behavior is up to you, but if that is so than human law has no authority as it's essentially someone else's view of morality.

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One correction: "encouraged," no. "Allowed," yes--by the view itself, which assumes no ethical overpower beyond humanity itself. Going into why an atheist would, or wouldn't, follow a moral code of some kind is far too off-track for my liking however, so if you'd like to continue on that track, find yourself another thread or make one.

I don't really need to go into it either, but in actuality such behavior would indeed be 'encouraged' by the simple fact that such acts and behavior seem to work for every other species on the planet to whom we are supposedly equal to under atheism.

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That there is an infinite Being far more powerful than us who created us and who cares about us and wants us to follow his ways and eventually come to him... that is empowering in the sense that it makes humanity feel important.

I would hold that it's not so much 'important' as significant and dignifying. The very fact that such a view inherently says we are not at the top of the pyrimad, and to obey His ways, rather than our own seems to confirm that the sense of 'empowerment' isn't so inherent.

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A deistic view would not nearly be so ego-boosting, let alone an atheistic one. That the Creator of All would place so much focus on us "clumps of dust" would tend to make said clumps feel more significant than clumps of dust would otherwise have any right to feel. Especially when such views include ideas like "the universe was made for life on Earth" or however you said it. It's empowering even as it humbles. I suppose a similar statement could be made about atheism, but whether it's applicable depends more on the individual atheist.

No I would say it's humbling all across the board, as I said above it inherently says the one with the reigns over life isn't us, and we dance to His tune. All that the universe being created specifically for us would simply confim that sense of significance and humbling, much the same way as a wedding is a big event centered around just two people making a promise to each other.

Trent · « **Reply #11 on:** May 12, 2008, 10:43:23 PM »

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Yes, though there are atheists that argue that their are objective moral laws without a moral Lawmaker, but such arguments never work. But that's why I said it's a contradicting aspect of atheism. It teaches that your behavior is up to you, but if that is so than human law has no authority as it's essentially someone else's view of morality.

Whether or not human law has any authority has nothing to do with atheism, although it is concievable that an atheist/relativist could think that way. I think there's another word for that--anarchist, I believe.

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I don't really need to go into it either, but in actuality such behavior would indeed be 'encouraged' by the simple fact that such acts and behavior seem to work for every other species on the planet to whom we are supposedly equal to under atheism.

Equal in significance, not function. Because we have the ability to think, act, and consider beyond bare instinct (most of the time, anyway...), we're free and, indeed, "encouraged" to act in other ways. One of the perks of intelligence.

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I would hold that it's not so much 'important' as significant and dignifying. The very fact that such a view inherently says we are not at the top of the pyrimad, and to obey His ways, rather than our own seems to confirm that the sense of 'empowerment' isn't so inherent.

Not "important" but "significant." Heh.

I don't think either Copernicus nor I equated "empowerment" to placing humanity on top of the pyramid, though.

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No I would say it's humbling all across the board, as I said above it inherently says the one with the reigns over life isn't us, and we dance to His tune. All that the universe being created specifically for us would simply confim that sense of significance and humbling, much the same way as a wedding is a big event centered around just two people making a promise to each other.

And atheism could not be seen as equally humbling, as it inherently says humanity is no more than bags of flesh, blood, and bone no more important than any other living thing on this rock that is no more important than any other out there, since there is nothing to give us any inherent "value" beyond the value we place on ourselves?

...Bah. Nevermind. This is off the topic. ...Well... actually, the issue is pertinent. "Importance" is one reason people may care, or not care, about the answer the question.

Zagzagel · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2009, 03:45:12 PM »

Here's the question: does the answer to the question of why the universe exists, why life exists, why anything exists, or any variant of the Question To End All Questions concern you? If so, how much and why? If not, why?

I'll punch in with my answer when I'm feeling less drowsy and a little more articulate.

I'm alive today.. so because of that I ask my myself that question too. I ask myself.. "Why the heck I am here?".. and "For what purpose?". I find it interesting that the questions keeps continuing.

I can't seem to be pleased with any response to your question here UNLESS we all somehow can figure out together why we exist at all.. and if so.. for what purpose?

Author Topic: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care? (Read 2391 times)

Trent

The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

Copernicus

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

Trent

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

End Bringer

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

Copernicus

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

Trent

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

Anthony Horvath

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

Copernicus

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

End Bringer

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

Trent

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

End Bringer

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

Trent

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?

Zagzagel

Re: The Meaning of the Universe... Do You Care?