"Ok, stop using 9/11 as the reason why everything's ok alright?"

Clearly 9/11 was a sign that everything wasn't ok.

"9/11 probably would have happened no matter who was president."

Yea, so?

"To say that everything changes after that, and we have to give bush a break is not a fair thing to ask for. tax credits and tax rebates helped the rich more than the poor-ie,"

You just need to shut your pie-hole.  I am poor.  The tax rebates helped me fine.

"But here's the real thing. Where did that money come from? the surplus? remember that?"

If there is one thing I'm known for, its my memory.  Its like a steel trap.  The surplus was fine, even with the cuts.  Then there was 9/11.  Remember that?

"come september 11th, it would have been nice to have that money wouldn't it?"

You are really being an iconoclast.  Boy, you just can't be pleased.  Want Bush to do something about the economy?  He was doing something about the economy.  Want Bush to be prepared for the event that no one out there was expecting?  He can either spend money to spur the economy or save it for an unexpected war.    He's d--ned if he does and if he don't in your book.   Arguments like this are why I left liberalism.

Its the same sort of tortured logic that insists we become less dependant on foreign oil but then fights tooth and nail against using our own oil (except, apparently, for what is in the emergency reserves.  These people kill me.)

"Ok... i don't understand where people spending money in the tech stocks and then losing out is Clinton's fault?"

Look closely.  I placed more blame on Greenspan.  I wished he was sacked.  I was merely contradicting your statement that this happened on Bush's watch, when it didn't.

"This says a lot... To someone who's not fully convinced that we should be involved in war right now, I'm not sure this arguement has any stock."

Not fully convinced we should be involved in war right now?  Me neither.   Too bad we didn't start it.   But really, I don't really care if you think we should end what someone else started.  All I care is that there are more of me than there are of you so we can make sure no weenies take office.

"Wartime economies are supposed to be good"

What?  Is that a law or something?  Or just a happy consequence.   This is quite irrelevant.   Do you know what the word 'cogent' means?  Its a word you want to be associated with your arguments.  Sadly, it isn't.

"If war is something that (you're saying) stresses the economy,"

Do you think there might be any significance to the fact that the first blow was an attack on the WORLD TRADE CENTER?   This was no ordinary stress, foo.

""But North Korea does. See the '80,000' in one crack thread where I have posted a news article that links Syria to North Korea.""

"That's right. North Korea is a threat to us. They have capabilities. notice we didn't start a pre-emptive war against them now did we?"

That's because its not NK thats the real threat.  NK is China's pin cushion.  Notice that we refused to engage NK in any dialogue until China was involved in it.  And someone said that the President was a unilateralist.  Guess that don't work.

Iraq, by all appearances, was an imminent threat.  And since its pretty certain that the VX gas that was almost used against Jordan came from Iraq, I think its safe to say that the UN was a stupid and worthless utterly foul smelling putrid peice of excrement for stalling long enough for Hussein to get his stuff into Syria before we invaded.    BTW, did you ever conclude your thoughts on how to deal with Syria?

"are you trying to justify Bush's sole focus on Star Wars before 9/11?"

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse?  First you take Bush to task for focusing on a missle defense system, and then you take him to task for not focusing on NK.... which would prompt.... a missle defense system.  Such duplicity in a mere mortal.

"""The USA now has no credibility,"""

""Tell that to Libya.""

I noticed that you didn't delete that.  You forgot to, I'm sure.  You wanted to, I"m certain.   Libya gave up its WMD program because it learned that we had some goods on it and they knew they might very well be next....

"Did you consider him a War president when you cast your ballot in 1999?"

Of course not.   But Al Bore was so clearly a weenie.  There were others that I would of voted for, given the opportunity, but Bush was the man for the job.  Man, just thinking of a US with Bore in charge right now makes me shudder.  We probably would of collectively pulled our pants down and put a big red target on our gluteous maximus and be skewered right now right up the you know what.

"out of that 5000, how much was from the tax cuts and how much was just money back?"

Once again, you can't be pleased.  First you say "You weren't helped."  Then I show that I was helped.  Then you say, "Oh yea?  but....."   Stop morphing into one position after the other.  Stake your ground.  If you get pushed off of it, give it up.  Don't grovel.

"By tossing out the R^3,"

I don't know what that means.

"I'm expressing a feeling against what I've been indoctrinated to believe all my life at Lutheran Schools: Christians are Republicans, and Democrats are not."

Well, I was raised a democrat and a liberal from birth, even while in the Lutheran Schools.  I did not vote for the first Bush.   So, what am I reacting against?

You know, there is no real value in reacting just for reacting sake.  Its.... I dunno.... childish.

You'll grow out of it.