Topic: Let's try this again... absolute truth! (Read 8588 times)

Tony N · « **Reply #40 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Quote from: Heretic

That is why it matters if God has given us belief now.

Cool! I do what I want, believe what I wish, take a couple of "eons/ages" nap, wake up and live in eternal bliss! Rock on!

If that is God's will for your life then nothing you can do can thwart it. But just realize that God loves you and eventually you will arrive.

Heretic · « **Reply #41 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Hijacking threads can be such fun!

However, I'm still waiting on jason to make the case he set out to make.

Heretic · « **Reply #42 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

But just realize that God loves you...

How can I realize this if no one has yet laid out a convincing case of this Gods existance? No different than my stating "Just realize that Santa Claus loves you..."

Tony N · « **Reply #43 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Quote from: Heretic

But just realize that God loves you...

How can I realize this if no one has yet laid out a convincing case of this Gods existance? No different than my stating "Just realize that Santa Claus loves you..."

Do you really honestly think that every last thing of creation on this planet is just a quirk of coincidence? let alone the entire universe? That the entire universe just began with a mind of its own?

You really think that the millions of different species of animals, plants etc all came about by a single cell which luckily found another cell and together they planned out where an eye would go on a human, ant, fly, etc? Your faith is greater than the greatest of all Christians if you believe that.

Heretic · « **Reply #44 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Do you really honestly think that every last thing of creation on this planet is just a quirk of coincidence?

Yes. (Not counting, of course, my hammer and drill/saw set.)

let alone the entire universe?

Dunno, I never been off planet. Have you? There may be created things, like my hammer, elsewhere in the universe.

That the entire universe just began with a mind of its own?

I see no reason to think the universe has a mind. Do you possess any evidence that it does other than your personal disbelief that it does not?
Just because you personally cannot believe something is the way it is does not mean it is not.

You really think that the millions of different species of animals, plants etc all came about by a single cell which luckily found another cell and together they planned out where an eye would go on a human, ant, fly, etc?

Now you're just being silly. Or just demonstrating your ignorance on matters of evolution. I, by no means, am a expert evolutionist, but the concept/basics isn't that hard to comprehend. Here, I'm here to help. Have a Link that will help you understand more. 8)

Tony N · « **Reply #45 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Heretic, I have to hand it to you, you have the greatest faith I've seen to date!

Also, I went to that evolutionist site and notice they provided no actual proof for evolution. It was all just speculation. It is a "theory." That is what they call it. That is all evolution is is pure speculation and theory. For instance, they don't really have proof that all animals and humans came from a single cell or whatever.

I mean the animals and humans had to have a start at some point if there was no Creator. We couldn't have just "poofed" all of a sudden as complete animals and humans.

I say that the enourmity of all of creation is more in the favor of the Christian that a Supreme Being is behind it all rather than just chance. Of course even we have to take it by faith since we have no imperical evidence that God even exists. I believe eventually you will see God exists though. You may not think so but we will see who is right in the end.

jason · « **Reply #46 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

i'll be here to make my point in the coming days. I just moved back home and i am just trying to get into the swing of working at home right now. I have not forgotten about you.

And, harry, i apologize in advance. My argument will really only be of worth to the theists, i betcha. We'll see though.

Heretic · « **Reply #47 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Heretic, I have to hand it to you, you have the greatest faith I've seen to date!

Nice of you to say, inaccurate as you may be. Only a small amount of faith is needed to believe highly collaborated information.

i'll play along with your line of questioning. Do you really believe;

Snakes and Donkeys can talk? One man named the several millions of species here on earth? Men live to be 180 years old? Sticks thrown on the ground will turn into snakes? Shall I go on?

It is a "theory." That is what they call it.

So is gravity.

I say that the enourmity of all of creation is more in the favor of the Christian that a Supreme Being is behind it all rather than just chance.

Personal incredulity. Yea, that's a convincing arguement. You do realize that's all you got don't you?

I believe eventually you will see God exists though. You may not think so but we will see who is right in the end.

[sarcasm] Another great convincing arguement! You'll see when you die! Your intellectual prowness is just to much for me. I can never hope to stand against such well thought out logic as yours. I may as well convert to christianity now.[/sarcasm]

My argument will really only be of worth to the theists

Ahh... I see. You were just planning on preaching to the choir. Why ask the choir a question you already know the response to?

Tony N · « **Reply #48 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Heretic, I don't want you to convert to christianity. That would be a step down. I just want you to see that this invisible Being I call God actually loves you and has done everything for you to save you.

Why do you find it so hard that a donkey can talk to a man? Parots, parakeets, and other birds talk and Chimpanzees use sign language and have quite a language.

And who says that Adam named several million species? Be that as it may, he may have had hundreds of years to name the animals.

Of course I believe the staff turned into a snake and back again. That's easy for God to do. After all, He created the universe.

There is actually no proof that evolution ever took place. No not even one shred of evidence. Yet it is spoken of as if it happened. Just listen to a PBS show on animals or plants. Every other sentence it seems they work it in somehow.

Heretic · « **Reply #49 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

There is actually no proof that evolution ever took place. No not even one shred of evidence.

So what do you call all that on the link provided? What do you call all this? Devil

lies?

Let's talk about 'no evidence'. There exists no evidence of any gods existing. There exists no evidence that any man has lived 180 years let alone 'hundreds of years'. There exists no evidence that a catastophic world wide flood ever happened. There exists no evidence of a mass exodus of slaves up and split out of Egypt. There exists no evidence that the bible is the work of a God. There exists no evidence that all that exists came into being, fully in it's present form, within a few days.

There exists more evidence for the existance of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny than exists for the existance of any God or for the truthfullness of any of the silly stories/claims made in the bible.

Tony N · « **Reply #50 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

There is actually proof of a world-wide flood.

Also, there is historical proof that at the time the Israelites left Egypt it took Egypt over 100 years to rebuild thus showing a catastrophic even happened (the plagues and curses) .

Of course you wouldn't believe if it was handed to you on a silver platter any way. But you will. Time is on my side

TheDoctor · « **Reply #51 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

These last posts really belong in the "Science and Religion" section of the forum.

cimics · « **Reply #52 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Let's talk about 'no evidence'. There exists no evidence of any gods existing. There exists no evidence that any man has lived 180 years let alone 'hundreds of years'. There exists no evidence that a catastophic world wide flood ever happened. There exists no evidence of a mass exodus of slaves up and split out of Egypt. There exists no evidence that the bible is the work of a God. There exists no evidence that all that exists came into being, fully in it's present form, within a few days.

There exists more evidence for the existance of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny than exists for the existance of any God or for the truthfullness of any of the silly stories/claims made in the bible.

The Bible IS evidence.

jason · « **Reply #53 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Okay, since all that was off subject, let's bring it back :)

I guess the next question is then;

Can Absolute truth change? Can it become merely relative, or can it become untrue?

I'll answer that for you. No, it cannot, because then it would have never been absolute, but just a temporal truth masquerading as an absolute.

Joel · « **Reply #54 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

"Can Absolute truth change? Can it become merely relative, or can it become untrue?"

"I'll answer that for you. No, it cannot, because then it would have never been absolute, but just a temporal truth masquerading as an absolute."

Jason, absolute truth had most definatley changed, otherwise you would NEED to be physicaly circumcised to have any chance at all to be right with God.

It WAS true that circumcision was required, it is NOW true that circumcision is NOT required. What was true, though it was absolutely true, is no longer truth FOR us today. It changed.

Right division my man, thats the real key.

His......Absolutley....Joel

jason · « **Reply #55 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

well, joel, before you can claim any of that, show me a verse where circumcision was explained as 'necessary' for salvation.

"Right division my man, thats the real key."

how is that even RELEVANT???

Joel · « **Reply #56 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

"well, joel, before you can claim any of that, show me a verse where circumcision was explained as 'necessary' for salvation."

Well if being "cut off" from being "His people" and "breaking His covenant" will suffice for no salvation for lack of circumcision, try Gen 17:10-14

"Right division my man, thats the real key."

"how is that even RELEVANT???"

Well jason, circumcison used to be required to be right with God. Thats the truth straight from the Word ..Gen 17....... NOW, circumcision is NOT required to be right with God, and that too comes straight from the Word.

Right division is the only way to make sense of these two truths. What WAS truely required of Gods people "abrahams seed" the Jews, is clearly not truth, required of us.......Same messenger (God), different message for different groups at different times.

His..........."a workman needing not to be ashamed"

Apollos · « **Reply #57 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

I doubt that Job was circumcised.

Joel · « **Reply #58 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

"I doubt that Job was circumcised."

Why is that?

I doubt that God was kidding when He said any males of Abrahams lineage who were not circumcised were cut off from His people.

Did you know Job also knew he would see God standing ON THE EARTH after the ressurection of the dead in his resurrected body? That he didn't look forward to an eternity OFF the earth like we?

jason? You there?

rareairpug · « **Reply #59 on:** July 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

Quote

That he didn't look forward to an eternity OFF the earth like we?

Say wha?

You are forcing your interpretation on the passage again. The verse does not say that Job expects to spend eternity on earth.

Author Topic: Let's try this again... absolute truth! (Read 8588 times)