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beefy

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Leo was correct
« on: June 09, 2009, 08:01:42 AM »

Men and woman in the military engage in activities that are in direct disobedience to Christ's commands.

Jesus says to do good to those who hate you. Just because one is wearing a uniform does not exempt oneself from Christ's command. One cannot do good to another who hate them if they are blowing their brains out with an M-16. Therefore it is disobedience to Christ.

Jesus says to love your enemies. One cannot show love to an enemy if they are tearing out their enemy's insides with a knife.

When one kills in the military, one makes millions of mothers childless, makes children fatherless, and creates great numbers of grieving widows. There is nothing honorable about that. That is what the military is trained to do. Trained to kill. They bring death, anguish, and despair to all those that stand in their way. And my heart is troubled as well by their actions, which are blessed by so many churches

Unlike these military men and women, Jesus gave help and aid to the widows and the orpahns. Military men and women, the so-called "Christian soldiers" simply create more widows and orphans for the following Christians to aid and comfort. These families have lost loved ones at the hand of "Christians," and they should be aided and reached out to by the following Christians of this world.

The word Christian means Christ-like. Killing is not by any means a Christ-like action. All lives are of the same worth to God. God does not deem one culture or one nation to be better than another. God loves all equally, in spite of our sin. Their lives are not worth more than our lives.

God forgives His people, even though the wages of sin is death. He forgave our tresspasses against Him. How can we show God's love if we do not also forgive other's trespasses in the same way?

The Bible says to be imitators of Christ. Christ did not kill anyone during His life on earth. His disciples did not kill others. They did not fear death.
Christians are supposed to be His disciples.

"To live is Christ and to die is gain."

In the words of the great Christian novelist Leo Tolstoy, who was a lieutenant in the Russian army at one time...

"We must say that by whatever name people may call murder - murder always remains murder and a criminal and shameful thing.

With regard to those who voluntarily choose a military career, I would propose to state clearly and definitely that not withstanding all the pomp, glitter, and general approval with which it is surrounded, it is a criminal and shameful activity; and that the higher the position a man holds in the military profession the more criminal and shameful his occupation."

And I agree wholeheartedly.
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Leo was correct
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2009, 12:17:22 PM »

Hi beefy, welcome.

Question:  if a husband walks in on his wife being raped, can this Christian man kill the rapist if that is what it takes to stop the attack?

Thanks.
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beefy

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Re: Leo was correct
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2009, 11:40:26 PM »

No. He can sacrifice himself so that His wife may escape though. He can put himself between the attacker and his wife to sheild her that she might get away. That is the kind of self-sacrfice Jesus taught. Pull the man off your wife and let him do what he will to you in retaliation. Don't worry. God will take vengeance in due time, for God says vengeance is His.

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:19

This is all in accordance with what Jesus said when He said "Resist not evil." Matthew 5:39

After all, Jesus did say, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13

Notice that Jesus said "lay down his life for his friends" rather than "take someone else's life for his friends."


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End Bringer

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Re: Leo was correct
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2009, 02:12:22 AM »

No. He can sacrifice himself so that His wife may escape though. He can put himself between the attacker and his wife to sheild her that she might get away. That is the kind of self-sacrfice Jesus taught. Pull the man off your wife and let him do what he will to you in retaliation. Don't worry. God will take vengeance in due time, for God says vengeance is His.

You seem to miss the fact that self-defense is not taking vengence. I honestly never understood where people get the notion Christ preached strict pacifism as such verses that are used for "proof" only involve interpersonal relations.

Quote
After all, Jesus did say, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13

Notice that Jesus said "lay down his life for his friends" rather than "take someone else's life for his friends."

I don't see where "lay down his life" means 'let yourself get beaten to death' either. Seems a classic error in context as the stament simply means 'don't hold your survival above others'. It has nothing to do with abstaining from violence.

Frankly I find strict pacifism immoral as it allows for victimhood by evil as you seem to demonstrate.
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Anthony Horvath

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Re: Leo was correct
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2009, 08:38:05 AM »

Thanks Beefy, that's all I needed to know.
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