Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Free Will  (Read 1557 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rareairpug

  • Administrator
  • Predominant User
  • *
  • Feedback: +2/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 922
Free Will
« on: September 02, 2004, 12:55:07 PM »

Do we really have free will?  Are we in control of our own actions, thoughts and feelings?  Or are we simply a product of the system we are raised in?  Explain your answer.    Please.  :-)
Logged

Phil

  • Predominant User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
    • http://angelfire.com/journal/Philsviews/index.html
Free Will
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2004, 10:11:39 AM »

Hi, Rap,

Can we have another one for "Don't know" because that is the place where my vote would go.

I think we have the appearance of Free will, but whether that equates to actual free will, I don't know.
Logged
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

"The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason. "

Thomas Paine

'Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.'
(Charles Darwin)


My webpage

rareairpug

  • Administrator
  • Predominant User
  • *
  • Feedback: +2/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 922
Free Will
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2004, 10:03:34 AM »

Hey Phil-- thanks for replying.  Could you expound on that a little bit for me?  You believe we have the appearance of free will.  Why do you think that?   And, if we do have the appearance of free will, why do you doubt that it is genuine?  If it looks like we have it, why question whether it is real?
Logged

Phil

  • Predominant User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
    • http://angelfire.com/journal/Philsviews/index.html
Free Will
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2004, 11:04:37 AM »

I am still deciding whether to answer this or not  :D

I have just chosen to put my radio on.  It seemed like I chose this and if asked why I would say that Radio 4 always has the News on.

The appearance of Free Will is apparent.

Did I really have a choice?  That is a question that I cannot answer.  Maybe all the causes that have led me to this point meant that my choice was, in effect, made for me.  I don't know.  That is all I am saying, we cannot know if it is real or not.

Personally, I don't care.  The appearance of Free Will is enough for me.  I will let the philosophers argue about it.
Logged
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

"The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason. "

Thomas Paine

'Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.'
(Charles Darwin)


My webpage

Mordsith44

  • User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Free Will
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2004, 11:35:03 PM »

Quote from: rareairpug
Do we really have free will?  Are we in control of our own actions, thoughts and feelings?  Or are we simply a product of the system we are raised in?  Explain your answer.    Please.  :-)


I believe we have Free Will with qualifications.
Logged

rareairpug

  • Administrator
  • Predominant User
  • *
  • Feedback: +2/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 922
Free Will
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2004, 08:07:08 AM »

What would those qualifications be?


Phil---
 How can we know if anything is truly real? Are we real?  How would you know?  Is there no test that can determine whether free will exists?
Logged

Phil

  • Predominant User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
    • http://angelfire.com/journal/Philsviews/index.html
Free Will
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2004, 09:04:58 AM »

Cogito ergo sum shows that a thinker exists.  Sollipsism is flawed which leaves the idea that at face value we all use, that we exist and the world is really out there.  That is a quick snapshot of my views.

I know of no test for true free will, and that is why I will stay on the fence on the issue.
Logged
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" - Homer Simpson

"The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason. "

Thomas Paine

'Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.'
(Charles Darwin)


My webpage

Uni

  • Regular User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
Free Will
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2004, 09:30:03 AM »

i would have phrased the question....
do you believe god allows for freewill?
do you believe god does not allow for freewill?
do you believe in predestination and not god?
do you believe in freewill and not in god?

i choose the last.
Logged
Aphorism of a Soldier
-written by uni-

With erudite sagacity,
I eschew mythology.
Militant in thought and deed,
Marching with elan i will succeed.
I will disillusion veiled eyes,
Adroitly exposing theistic lies.
As a soldier there is no pause,
Until I've clipped chimera's claws.

jason

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1419
    • http://www.xanga.com/jason_123
Free Will
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2004, 10:12:34 AM »

i answer yes and no.  We have an appearance of free will, but not really.  The way Descartes defines it, then yes.  The way most postmoderns define it, then no.  I believe about free will the way Calvin explains it in his Institutes.
Logged
I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

corzine

  • Regular User
  • *
  • Feedback: +2/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Free Will
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2004, 02:25:15 PM »

"Do we really have free will? Are we in control of our own actions, thoughts and feelings?"

Yes.

However, I believe that men are enslaved to sin and must rescued therefrom i.e. salvation.  

I don't quite jive with Calvin on this, but would point toward Luther's Bondage of the Will
Logged

nrthsll

  • Frequent User
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 323
Free Will
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2004, 02:59:24 PM »

"Did I really have a choice?"

Yes.  Your choice was to listen.  The fact that Radio 4 was (perhaps) the only frequency to offer news 24/7 might limit the stations you listen to, but nobody made you turn on the radio.
Logged

jason

  • Semi-Super User!
  • *
  • Feedback: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1419
    • http://www.xanga.com/jason_123
Free Will
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2004, 03:09:52 PM »

you probably do jive with Calvin but don't realize it.  Let's see...

"Bernard, agreeing with Augustine, writes,

Quote
In the Animal world, man alone is free.  Because sin has intervened, he suffers a kind of violence, but this comes from his will, not from nature, so that it does not deprive him of innate freedom.


What is voluntary must be free.  Then he adds:

Quote
In some strange and evil manner, the will itself, undermined by sin, imposes a necessity upon itself.  But the necessity, being voluntary, cannot excuse the will, and the will, being led astray, cannot escape the necessity.


The necessity is as it were voluntary.  Later he says:

Quote
We are under a yoke of voluntary bondage [to sin].  As regards bondage, we are miserable, and as regards will, inexcusable, because the will, when it was free [with Adam] made itself the slave of sin.


Finally he concludes:

Quote
So the soul, in some strange and evil way, is held under this kind of voluntary yet sadly free necessity, both slave and free.  It is enslaved because of the necessity, and free because it is a will.  What is stranger and sadder still , it is guilty because free, and enslaved because guilty, therefore enslaved because free.


So my readers will see that the doctrine i pass on is not new, but one which Augustine set forth with the agreement of all the saints.  It was guarded in the monasteries for nearly a thousand years."

Institutes II, 3, v
Logged
I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17
Pages: [1]   Go Up