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matt

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Budhism
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2004, 05:04:34 PM »

Quote
Those sound more like your reasons against it. That information does not matter.


You need to figure out where your argument is leading. You make a statement, I say something, and then you disregard the post totally. There is no sense in even posting to your comments, because you do not have an open mind when it comes to logical refutation.

That information that you said doesn't matter is what Buddhism is based on. So reasons against it is information that doesn't matter?

So your reasons against the existence of God, which I haven't even seen yet, is not important information and is worthless?
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1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2004, 02:16:48 PM »

Why did you even mention God when we were discussing Buddhism?
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matt

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Budhism
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2004, 03:10:43 PM »

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Why did you even mention God when we were discussing Buddhism?


Why are you frightened to answer my refutation? If you are stumped then it is okay to admit it.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2004, 04:32:51 PM »

I'm stumped and confused and any thing else meaning i don't understand! Wasn't that my question?
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matt

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Budhism
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2004, 04:40:43 PM »

Okay.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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Budhism
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2004, 02:13:11 PM »

Okay!
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Andromeda

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« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2004, 04:43:29 AM »

Beautiful work, Matt!  My compliments.  :)  I, too, have a point to argue Buddhism.  If, as Siddhartha Gautama reported to have said, Nirvana is "beyond...good and evil", then, it follows, in the ultimate sense, there is genuinely no difference between a Hitler and a Mother Theresa, or between helping an old lady across the street and running her down, is there?  Further - how do we reconcile the Dalai Lama's observation that "Every human being has the potential to create happiness", with the teaching that suffering is caused by desire?  If one sets out to resist desire, why would one ever then entertain the desire for happiness, and thus work to create it?
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"I desire to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart." - Psalm 40:8

matt

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Budhism
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2004, 03:46:56 PM »

Thank you.

Quote
If, as Siddhartha Gautama reported to have said, Nirvana is "beyond...good and evil", then, it follows, in the ultimate sense, there is genuinely no difference between a Hitler and a Mother Theresa, or between helping an old lady across the street and running her down, is there?


Well said.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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Budhism
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2004, 02:13:02 PM »

To be truly perfect you would be able to see the good parts of everyone.
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matt

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« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2004, 10:49:03 AM »

How does that statement tie into this topic? Please clarify.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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Budhism
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2004, 02:07:13 PM »

Nirvanna the path of enlightenment. To be perfect is to be enlightened.
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matt

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« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2004, 03:01:03 PM »

Tell me what you are trying to get at.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2004, 01:53:21 PM »

*Bangs matt's head into computer*
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jason

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Budhism
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2004, 01:57:13 PM »

antichrist, YOU ARE RIDICULOUS.  

Answer the freaking question.
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I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

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Budhism
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2004, 02:02:33 PM »

Matt said:

Quote
Buddha's four noble truths are as follows:

1. the noble truth of dukkha (suffering, dissatisfaction, stress): life is fundamentally fraught with disappointment of every description.

Okay, to say that everything is suffering, one should have some idea of joy and pleasure. We see suffering as suffering only in contrast to something that can be enjoyed. We would not know suffering as suffering if everything were indeed suffering.

Source: C.S. Lewis
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal; a fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, my argument against God collapsed too- for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist- in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless- I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice- was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should have never found out that it has no meaning; just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known that it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning.

End of Source

As we contemplate this quote, we ought not to mistake Buddhism to have logically concluded that God does not exist because of the first noble truth- that everything is suffering. God simply does not figure in the writings of the Buddha. We can, on the other hand, point out from a philosophical point of view that pain is understandable only against the back-drop of pleasure- and both are realities in our existence. We should therefore encourage the Buddhist to look for the causes of suffering elsewhere. What's more, we should be able to show that, even at the pragmatic level, there is much in life that is good, and there are good people who try to alleviate suffering. Even the Buddhist teaching to practice dana ( which means generosity) is a tacit admission that suffering can and is being alleviated in this world of suffering.

2. the noble truth of the cause of dukkha: the cause of this dissatisfaction is tanha- craving in all its form.
There is an admirable fact in the second noble truth- the location of the reason for suffering in tanha (which means craving). The apostle John warns of "the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does" (1 John 2:16).

3. the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha: an end to all dissatisfaction can be found through relinquishment and abandonment of craving.
However, the third noble truth runs into a contradiction. Relinquishment of craving can itself be a craving; that is, the desire to get rid of craving is itself a desire. An existence without desire is an existential as well as a logical contradiction. Instead, we need to focus our desires on an object worthy of our desire (Psalm 27:4).

4. the noble truth of the path leading to the cessation of dukkha: there is a method of achieving the end of all dissatisfaction, namely, the Noble Eightfold Path.
The fourth noble truth lays down the basis for an admirable lifestyle but offers little to actually execute it. We come back then to the serious weakness of knowing what is right and being unable to do it.

I am wandering why you are comparing the Bible to Nirvanna. Nirvanna is how you should live your lifestyle, unlike the New Testament where it just has how Jesus live His life.
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matt

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« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2004, 05:29:37 PM »

We are made in the image of God, and we should follow after God's own teachings. Those teachings are found in the Bible.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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Budhism
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2004, 04:33:57 PM »

Quote
We are made in the image of God, and we should follow after God's own teachings. Those teachings are found in the Bible.

Why you answering the question with saying part of the question.
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matt

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« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2004, 12:16:41 AM »

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I am wandering why you are comparing the Bible to Nirvanna. Nirvanna is how you should live your lifestyle, unlike the New Testament where it just has how Jesus live His life.


My response:

Quote
We are made in the image of God, and we should follow after God's own teachings. Those teachings are found in the Bible.


I listed four logical problems inconsistent with Buddhism. Not yet have you once provided me with a refutation of any of these points. Atleast back up what you are proposing.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

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« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2004, 04:38:19 PM »

I give up defending a religion I don't even believe in.
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« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2004, 04:39:31 PM »

Quote from: TheAntiChrist
I give up defending a religion I don't even believe in.


do you just give up, or do you accept what matt was saying?
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I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17
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