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TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« on: November 29, 2004, 02:09:15 PM »

Can you find one thing wrong with Budhist? Well I can't.
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jason

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Budhism
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2004, 03:19:40 PM »

Who is Bud Hist?

Vince Lombardi?

Lombardi was pretty good.
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I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2004, 04:22:32 PM »

It is Budhist not Bud Hist.
Ha ha! You just got a taste of your own medicine. :ba:
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matt

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Budhism
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2004, 05:03:07 PM »

Buddha's four noble truths are as follows:

1. the noble truth of dukkha (suffering, dissatisfaction, stress): life is fundamentally fraught with disappointment of every description.

Okay, to say that everything is suffering, one should have some idea of joy and pleasure. We see suffering as suffering only in contrast to something that can be enjoyed. We would not know suffering as suffering if everything were indeed suffering.

Source: C.S. Lewis
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal; a fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, my argument against God collapsed too- for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist- in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless- I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice- was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should have never found out that it has no meaning; just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known that it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning.

End of Source

As we contemplate this quote, we ought not to mistake Buddhism to have logically concluded that God does not exist because of the first noble truth- that everything is suffering. God simply does not figure in the writings of the Buddha. We can, on the other hand, point out from a philosophical point of view that pain is understandable only against the back-drop of pleasure- and both are realities in our existence. We should therefore encourage the Buddhist to look for the causes of suffering elsewhere. What's more, we should be able to show that, even at the pragmatic level, there is much in life that is good, and there are good people who try to alleviate suffering. Even the Buddhist teaching to practice dana ( which means generosity) is a tacit admission that suffering can and is being alleviated in this world of suffering.

2. the noble truth of the cause of dukkha: the cause of this dissatisfaction is tanha- craving in all its form.
There is an admirable fact in the second noble truth- the location of the reason for suffering in tanha (which means craving). The apostle John warns of  "the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does" (1 John 2:16).

3. the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha: an end to all dissatisfaction can be found through relinquishment and abandonment of craving.
However, the third noble truth runs into a contradiction. Relinquishment of craving can itself be a craving; that is, the desire to get rid of craving is itself a desire. An existence without desire is an existential as well as a logical contradiction. Instead, we need to focus our desires on an object worthy of our desire (Psalm 27:4).

4. the noble truth of the path leading to the cessation of dukkha: there is a method of achieving the end of all dissatisfaction, namely, the Noble Eightfold Path.
The fourth noble truth lays down the basis for an admirable lifestyle but offers little to actually execute it. We come back then to the serious weakness of knowing what is right and being unable to do it.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

jason

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Budhism
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2004, 06:10:52 PM »

Quote from: TheAntiChrist
It is Budhist not Bud Hist.
Ha ha! You just got a taste of your own medicine. :ba:


lol, very funny... ACTUALLY, Anti, if you care at all, it is BUDDHIST.  There are 2 D's.
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I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

matt

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Budhism
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2004, 06:12:59 PM »

Quote
Can you find one thing wrong with Budhist? Well I can't.


Done.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

jason

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Budhism
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2004, 06:14:01 PM »

Good quote of Lewis.  Was that from 'Problem of Pain'?
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I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

matt

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Budhism
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2004, 06:26:30 PM »

Yep.  :D
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2004, 04:17:31 PM »

Is that your opinion?
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matt

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Budhism
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2004, 04:23:12 PM »

Yes, that is my opinion. Is the third noble truth not a logical contradiction? The first noble truth? Let me know where I am wrong, if you think I am.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2004, 02:14:02 PM »

Alright, but give me some time. My service is slow.
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matt

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Budhism
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2004, 03:51:40 PM »

Okay.
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2004, 04:15:04 PM »

Depends on how you interperet Craving.
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matt

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Budhism
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2004, 05:01:20 PM »

crav
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- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2004, 04:09:26 PM »

Some nationalities use words differently. Agnostics usually use this as their main arguments against theist.
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matt

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Budhism
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2004, 09:33:46 AM »

Tell me how you would interpret the word 'craving' then? Agnostics do this only when there is more than one meaning.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2004, 01:57:05 PM »

Since, when have I been an agnostic? That would be more of a question for sntjohnny.
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matt

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Budhism
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2004, 03:07:15 PM »

You still haven't refuted the problems that I listed aboved against Buddhism. You said there was nothing wrong with it, but the logical contradictions I showed are still there without any refutation.
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Reading List
- Dawkins God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life
- Blind Watchmaker
- The Beak of the Finches
1 Peter 3:15-16

"And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."

" I think, therefore I am." - DesCartes

TheAntiChrist

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Budhism
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2004, 02:13:33 PM »

Those sound more like your reasons against it. That information does not matter.
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Budhism
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2004, 03:45:58 PM »

Quote from: TheAntiChrist
Those sound more like your reasons against it. That information does not matter.

???

 :smt101
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I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all my friends, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.  And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind.

--Paraphrase of Ecclesiastes 1:16,17
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