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Author Topic: The Shroud of Turin  (Read 5459 times)

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Anthony Horvath

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The Shroud of Turin
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2006, 06:51:14 AM »
I would like to make a confession.  This is just tearing me up.

It was me.  I forged the Shroud.

My deepest apologies.  My deepest regrets.
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8d82thebone

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The Shroud of Turin
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2006, 08:48:47 AM »
I knew it!! And did I miss something here> what's up with Chuck Norris?
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"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God?"    -Quote from the Jefferson Memorial
                                              Washington D.C.
"Besides being complicated, reality, in my experience, is usually odd. It is not neat, not obvious, not what you expect...Reality, in fact, is usually something you could not have guessed. That is one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It is a religion you could not have guessed."
                        'Mere Christianity' , C.S. Lewis

Anthony Horvath

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The Shroud of Turin
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2006, 08:59:16 AM »
Ah, thanks for reminding me.  I updated my profile.  ;)

I posted http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/page1.html in some thread somewhere.
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Zagzagel

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The Shroud of Turin
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2006, 08:41:50 PM »
I always preferred Bruce Lee above Chucky boy...but I like Norris too. [biggrin

And I have proof that Bruce can beat Chuck anytime of the day. :P

G.
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8d82thebone

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The Shroud of Turin
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2006, 11:00:51 AM »
Quote from: Stathei


Quote
Even though a medieval forgerer admitted he forged it?


Did this 'forger' actually prove that he did it, or was it simply a case of someone confessing that he did it?
 For instance, Al Gore claimed once that he invented the Internet... :shock:
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"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God?"    -Quote from the Jefferson Memorial
                                              Washington D.C.
"Besides being complicated, reality, in my experience, is usually odd. It is not neat, not obvious, not what you expect...Reality, in fact, is usually something you could not have guessed. That is one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It is a religion you could not have guessed."
                        'Mere Christianity' , C.S. Lewis

8d82thebone

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The Shroud of Turin
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2006, 10:31:10 AM »
Last night as I was flipping through the channels I happened to find a program on the Shroud. One particular expert was a woman who is an expert on ancient textiles; in her experience she has seen only one other example of the kind of linen the Shroud is constructed of, and this was seen in linen from the 1st century AD found at Masada in Israel. She stated that no examples of this very unusual type of  weave have ever been found in Europe. Ever. Well, obviously with one exception...
 One other interesting note is this; If you go onto SJ's post about the existence of Jesus you will read about a certain individual named Agbarus (Abgarus?) who was 'King of Edessa' in the 1st century AD and apparently had some correspondence with Jesus, which had been kept in the city records,and were referred to by a certain historian named Eusebius.
 Well, after I read this I recalled reading about a certain "cloth of Edessa" which had been on display as early as the 10th century in a church in Constantinople, of which Europeans had written concerning an image of a crucified man which they believed was Jesus. This cloth disappeared from Constantinople somewhere around 1293, less than a century before the modern-day Shroud made its appearance in Europe.
 So where am I going with all this?
 If you read the account of Agbarus, you will see he became a believer in Jesus, and had contact with some of Jesus disciples, who apparently were able to heal him of an unspecified disease. Is it possible this 'cloth' was actually the Shroud which King Abgarus somehow came to possess? Is this how it came to be known as the 'cloth of Edessa?'  I have not even a single shred of proof for this,but it is an intriguing idea...  [elementarydearjohnny
Any thoughts?
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"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God?"    -Quote from the Jefferson Memorial
                                              Washington D.C.
"Besides being complicated, reality, in my experience, is usually odd. It is not neat, not obvious, not what you expect...Reality, in fact, is usually something you could not have guessed. That is one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It is a religion you could not have guessed."
                        'Mere Christianity' , C.S. Lewis

Stathei

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The Shroud of Turin
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2006, 10:31:12 PM »
Quote
Any thoughts?


 [headbanger
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8d82thebone

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The Shroud of Turin
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2006, 11:17:40 PM »
Hey it's not that far out there...
 I did a little digging and found that there is a 'diptych', (a two- piece hinged picture... who knew?) from the 10th century portraying "Abgar V, Ruler of Edessa" holding a cloth with an obvious image of Christ on it. So there!
 :smt062

Also, I did some digging into your claim that an artist admitted to painting the image on the Shroud;
 It seems there was a memorandum written by a Pierre d'Arcis claiming that an artist had admitted painting the image, however there are some problems with the story:
 d'Arcis claimed that it was actually his predecessor, bishop Henri de Poitiers of Troye, who actually held the inquest, although there are no records of such an inquest. Strangely enough, after this 'inquest' was held, the 'artist' was never even named... what was the point?
 Also, the memorandum exists only in unsigned , undated copies. There is no evidence that it was ever sent to Clement or recieved by the Vatican, as no copies of the signed memorandum exist there. So the "admitted artist" hypothesis is somewhat doubtful it would seem...
Check both of these items out at http://www.factsplusfacts.com "Edessa to Turin" and "D'Arcis Memorandum"
The "Open Letter to John Dominic Crossan" is also very informative!
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"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God?"    -Quote from the Jefferson Memorial
                                              Washington D.C.
"Besides being complicated, reality, in my experience, is usually odd. It is not neat, not obvious, not what you expect...Reality, in fact, is usually something you could not have guessed. That is one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It is a religion you could not have guessed."
                        'Mere Christianity' , C.S. Lewis
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