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Author Topic: Roger Clemens  (Read 1827 times)

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rareairpug

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Roger Clemens
« on: February 15, 2008, 10:59:23 PM »

I happened to tune into Roger Clemens giving his side of the story before the congressional committee the other day.  Seems like there were plenty of holes in his testimony, but then again, there were plenty of reasons to doubt McNamee's story as well.  Anyone watch or have any thoughts?
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Ragnar

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Re: Roger Clemens
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2008, 12:36:07 PM »

I'm a Yankee fan and I think he's full of crap. I don't know why he didn't just admit it from the beginning like Petitte and Giambi and move on. Petitte was testifying during spring training and is already set to go for opening day.
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[batman

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."  
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rareairpug

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Re: Roger Clemens
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2008, 10:09:41 PM »

I have often wondered the same thing.  We have such a forgiving culture, I bet if Bonds and Clemens had just fessed up when this whole thing started ("I made a mistake, I used a few times and I'm sorry") that this whole thing would have blown over by now.  Although, part of the issue with Bonds is the home run record, so maybe not.  Either way, now they are in some real trouble if they get caught for perjury.  Way worse than anything baseball could have done to them.

It seems like such a silly risk to take.  Sure, we'd have lost a little respect for them, but as it turns out, everyone else was using roids anyways, so are their accomplishments really that diminished?  Heck, has anyone ever actually studied the effects of steroids on ballplayers?  Stars have used them, yes, but some nameless minor leaguers have been using too, and it hasn't helped them that much.....
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Ragnar

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Re: Roger Clemens
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2008, 11:55:29 PM »

I have often wondered the same thing.  We have such a forgiving culture, I bet if Bonds and Clemens had just fessed up when this whole thing started ("I made a mistake, I used a few times and I'm sorry") that this whole thing would have blown over by now.  Although, part of the issue with Bonds is the home run record, so maybe not.  Either way, now they are in some real trouble if they get caught for perjury.  Way worse than anything baseball could have done to them.

It seems like such a silly risk to take.  Sure, we'd have lost a little respect for them, but as it turns out, everyone else was using roids anyways, so are their accomplishments really that diminished?  Heck, has anyone ever actually studied the effects of steroids on ballplayers?  Stars have used them, yes, but some nameless minor leaguers have been using too, and it hasn't helped them that much.....

Well, you have to have talent to begin with, but they definitely give you an advantage over someone who isn't using. The benefit (or lack) is different for each person. In the case of Bonds, I don't know why he started using, but the effect was to change him from a hard hitter who could also steal bases into a strictly power hitter. Maybe he thought he was losing some speed so he wanted to focus more on power. Instead of hitting 350-foot outs, the extra bulk lets you hit 400-foot home runs. Now if you can only hit it 200 feet, or if you can't even make contact, steroids won't do a d--n thing for you.

In the case of Clemens, he was getting old. The steroids helped him recover from injury and general soreness faster, and let him keep the velocity on his fastball. The difference between just 85 and 90 mph is huge for a pitcher, and steroids can give you that much of an edge. See, with a pitcher it's a different effect. If you can't throw 90 to begin with, steroids won't make you able to. What the steroids do is let you throw as if you are on full strength, your full strength, whatever that might be. I think they're kind of like super-Vicodins. You can play through the pain more easily. That's why Pedro Martinez is so proud of excelling in a steroids era without having used himself (if that's even true). If he came through the injuries he had without the benefit of steroids, that is something to be proud of, because it's a remarkable achievement for a guy his age.

I don't really care if athletes use or not, but it has to be fair. Either let them all use or make sure no one uses.
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[batman

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."  
- Ayn Rand

"Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself makes you fearless."
- Lao Tzu

"Your side hates our side because you think we think you're stupid. Our side hates your side because we think you're stupid."
- Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip

rareairpug

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Re: Roger Clemens
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 02:05:32 AM »

Quote
I don't really care if athletes use or not, but it has to be fair. Either let them all use or make sure no one uses.

That was sort of what I was saying.  If everyone WAS using (and it seems like a whole bunch were) then why should we feel like Bonds' and Clemens' accomplishments were diminished because they were users?
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Copernicus

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Re: Roger Clemens
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2008, 12:30:20 PM »

I don't think that we want to encourage our athletes to use such drugs, because they have serious long term consequences for the health of the users.  If anyone were allowed to take them, then it would be a virtual requirement for everyone to take them.  That would simply not be fair to career athletes.
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Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.  Religion is answers that may never be questioned.  --Anonymous
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