Topic: Do you hate Christmas? (Read 4217 times)

Sic Semper Tyranis · « **on:** December 04, 2005, 03:16:10 PM »

Topic speaks for itself, Yes and No answers are welcome as are explanations, though the explanation is not necessary. I have already voted Yes on the poll. My reason for hating Christmas is pagan traditions+unadulterated greed= 1 big mistake.

Copernicus · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2005, 07:19:49 PM »

What is so hateful about pagan traditions? As for unadulterated greed, all humans, regardless of creed or opinions on religion, are selfish from time to time. I don't see Christians as more or less greedy than anyone else, atheists included.

Sic Semper Tyranis · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2005, 07:35:33 PM »

Because using pagan tradition as a means of worship is spiritual treason against YHWH.

Quote from: Copernicus

As for unadulterated greed, all humans, regardless of creed or opinions on religion, are selfish from time to time. I don't see Christians as more or less greedy than anyone else, atheists included.

True. But Christmas has cornered the market in terms of the sheer volume of grees.

Copernicus · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2005, 08:26:39 PM »

Quote from: Sic Semper Tyranis

Because using pagan tradition as a means of worship is spiritual treason against YHWH.

OK, I get it. You hate people who you think have offended your god. To me, that's just another example of how religious faith can rob people of their moral and ethical senses. Since most of humanity engages in your concept of "spiritual treason", your religion has caused you to hate most human beings.

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...Christmas has cornered the market in terms of the sheer volume of grees.

That's utter nonsense. People commercialize everything, and Christmas is no exception. As with birthdays, bar mitzvahs, bas mitzvahs, weddings, births, graduations and other celebrations, you will always find people who go to extremes.

Sic Semper Tyranis · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2005, 08:58:13 PM »

When did I said that I hated anyone? I said I hated what people were doing I never said I hated people. Besides opposing people who violate yor ethical system is the basis of morality as we know it whether it be theist or athiest. For example many people would be opposed to my views on the grounds that it violates their personal beleifs. Either way conflict is the constant.

Anthony Horvath · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2005, 09:42:38 PM »

Welcome back, SST.

Don't mind Copernicus. He's our resident omniscient one. You don't have to say anything. He KNOWS.

Zagzagel · « **Reply #6 on:** December 05, 2005, 10:04:10 PM »

I don't like Christmas...perhaps, I may even hate it. Yup, I probably hate it!

Cook · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2005, 10:10:07 AM »

Sic Semper Tyranis · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2005, 12:22:45 PM »

Quote from: Cook

Cook · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:07:10 PM »

Sic Semper Tyranis · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:24:39 PM »

The fact that pagans used temples and sacrifices before YHWH ordained them is merely coincidental. Just because their illegitimate use predated their legitimate use that does not mean that sacrifices and temples inspired God to use them. That's like saying that faith in Christ is a knock-off of Mithraism or Zorastronism just because they came earlier.

[quote/]
Jesus' entire message is about the heart not legalism!
[quote/]

Correct. His message was about the Torah plain and simple.

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Have you not read that everyday is a day that the Lord has made? You have heard this? NO?
Whatever day a man regards let him regard it - or not - as unto the Lord.[quote/]

I have read this passage. It claims that believer's should not judge each other on who keeps what holiday, that's for God to judge not us. I personally would prefer to celebrate the the Messiah and the Apostles celebrated and I am not saying that anyone is going to hell for celebrating Christmas.

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A day set aside to tell the story of His birth, and our redemption, is a day in which He receives glory. I would imagine this is more pleasing than 8 days set aside to mourn the loss of a temple, for which there is no need. [quote/]

Their is nothing wrong with celebrating the birth, just don't use it as an excuse to celebrate Saturnalia, Brumalia, or any other pagan festival alongside it. Also show me where the 8-day festival to mourn the loss of the Temple is in the Torah.

Cook · « **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:43:08 PM »

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Correct. His message was about the Torah plain and simple.

Sorry charlie, you are wrong again!!

His message was not about the Torah - the Torah's message was about HIM!

Therein lies your mistake!

I'll get to the rest later.

cook

Sic Semper Tyranis · « **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2005, 02:36:16 PM »

Quote from: Cook

His message was not about the Torah - the Torah's message was about HIM!

Actually I did make a mistake in my typing when I said His message was about the Torah. What I meant to type is that His message WAS the Torah. This should be a lesson on why you shouldn't type in a hurry. In any event claiming the Torah was about Him is actually a better way of describing the Torah and the Messiah's relationship. I just do not see how it justifies Christmas.

Cook · « **Reply #13 on:** December 06, 2005, 03:05:15 PM »

Cook · « **Reply #14 on:** December 06, 2005, 03:05:58 PM »

Sic Semper Tyranis · « **Reply #15 on:** December 06, 2005, 03:56:33 PM »

First of all I don't desire to judge the hearts of others, I only want to follow my own conscience. I cannot judge the heart of those who celebrate Christmas. But as for my heart, I may be in the minority, but I know the origins of Christmas, that it was an excuse to continue Saturnalia and Brumalia. Since I know this I cannot in good conscious continue to celebrate Christmas because by doing so I would also be worshipping idols alongside with God and that obviously is wrong. So by indulging in this holiday I am doing what I know is a sin. So by following the actual biblical holidays I do so to honor God with all my heart, soul, mind strength, and not God and some idols. So is it then a sin to enlighten other believers to the origins of the church calendar and bring them over to my point of view?

Cook · « **Reply #16 on:** December 06, 2005, 04:20:15 PM »

Sic Semper Tyranis · « **Reply #17 on:** December 06, 2005, 04:48:51 PM »

Well it is God' s point of view that worship styles not be spliced, He was very clear about that. It is written that beleivers should try to walk as Jesus did and Jesus kept the Moedim. So if one is to walk as Jesus did than exhonerably they would start following the Moedim.

Cook · « **Reply #18 on:** December 06, 2005, 08:02:51 PM »

Sic Semper Tyranis · « **Reply #19 on:** December 06, 2005, 09:21:12 PM »

First of all Jesus never converted to Christianity, He came as the Messiah for the old faith Judaism. Faith in Him as the Messiah is the true biblical Judaism and not the man-made rabbinical Judaism. Christianity as we know it came about by the Church Father who took Biblical Judaism, butchered it to remove the Torah and then injected various pagan traditions. By coming into faith in the biblical Judaism gentile converts became a part of Israel as sure as if they were native born. Second, within the apostolic scriptures Torah obedience was commanded to the new gentile converts. Surely you will recall the council in Acts 15 where believers are commanded to abstain from sexual immorality, food sacrificed to idols, blood and strangled meat. Does this mean these 4 commandments are the only things that need to be followed by all gentile believers? No! These commands were taken directly from Leviticus 16-18 which is the heart of the Torah. As well as being the center of the actual Torah these chapters contain the most important commandments from which the lesser commandments branch out from. By repeating the commandments in these chapters the council is advocating Torah obedience to the new gentile converts. They recognized that making these new ger follow the entire Torah was too much, so they had them start there with the understanding that their Torah obedience would increase from their. I believer that dispatches 1. Most Christians are GENTILES!!! Ring any bells? We were NEVER given those commands!! They were for Israel!!!

As for 2. Jesus was circumcised yet Paul plainly says - SO WHAT!!! We are not called to circumcision just because Jesus was. Per the verse near the end of Galatians Paul was not advocating the abolition of circumcision. That would mean that he was destroying actual scripture and that he and therefore the Messiah he followed would both be frauds. What Paul did was use hyperbole to berate those who used circumcision as a kind of

Author Topic: Do you hate Christmas? (Read 4217 times)