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Author Topic: The "-" in G-d.  (Read 2188 times)

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shalom

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The "-" in G-d.
« on: March 30, 2006, 04:35:43 AM »

G-d gave Israel specific instructions on how to take the land, and what to do once they were there.  One of these instructions called for the total destruction of temples, altars etc. and the erasing of the name(s) or symbol(s) of all false g-ds worshiped by the indigeneous people.  This can be found in Deuteronomy Chapter 12, verses 2 & 3.   In  verse 4 of that same chapter, G-d makes a simple statement "You shall not do so to your G-d.".  Thisstatement is classified a "Negative Mitzvot" (thou shalt not....), It is counted as number  458 out of the 613 Mitzvot identified by Israel.

The Name of the G-d of Israel.
G-d's name consists of four letters.  These four are called, by some, Tthe Tetragamatron. Often times in Jewish literature written in Hebrew or Aramaic, these four letters are substituted with a double Yud.  Why?  Because it is easier to manage documents containing a substitute than a document containing the actual Name.

Over the centuries the custom of altering even references to G-d (such as the word G-d and L-rd) became popular.  It may seem to be unnecessary, since neither are G-d's Name.  However, many Jews (me included) alter these words by habit. It is a constant reminder of the sacredness of the Name of G-d.  When writing the word Lord as applying to a civil leader, some Jews use the "o", others write l-rd or lord.  G-d is a bit more tricky. The only time I've ever seen an orthodox Jew write out the 'o' was when referencing false gods (note the small g).  Again, this is all "family custom" amongst some Jews.

A bit more on the subject:

The words G-d and L-rd do not come up much between Jews in conversation.  We generally substitute other names. With Gentiles, we use G-d and L-rd.  The most common substitutes are Adonai (which means L-rd) and HaShem (which means in Hebrew "The Name"). "The Almighty", "The Eternal One" and "The Holy One" are less common, but still used in some circles.


When chanting Torah, the Name of G-d is pronounced 'Adonai'.  And that is not how the word should be said.  But Jews do not say the Name, nor  write out a transliteration, as is the custom of many Christians.

English translations of the Hebrew Scriputres have also adopted the use of the word "L-rd" in place of  the Tetragamatron.  Oftentimes the reader, unfamiliar with the original text,  will misunderstand the English term L-rd. They think it means always means G-d, but it can mean a civil ruler as well. The best way to know the difference is to check the Hebrew, or have a translation that makes a distinction between the Hebrew word "Adonai" and the Tetragamatron.

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Zagzagel

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The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2006, 08:29:37 PM »

There is much argument within some religious circles of the importance of G-d's name.  There is even more argument about the proper pronunciation and spelling of G-d's name.  I guess the general idea with some is that G-d's people should not be ashamed to pronounce the name of the true G-d since it was given them.

G
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corzine

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 06:12:23 AM »

When did the custom come up of placing the vowels from adonai among the consonants of YHWH, do produce, more or less, Jehova? 
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shalom

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 06:57:02 AM »

When did the custom come up of placing the vowels from adonai among the consonants of YHWH, do produce, more or less, Jehova? 

Vowel notations themselves (nikkud) were introduced about the 7-8th century with the Massoretic scribes. The notiongs however are not used when writing a Sefer Torah (Scroll).  According to the Jewish Encyclopeida, applying nikkud to the four letters of G-d's name, was first done by the confessor of the Pope Leo X  somewhere during the first-half of the 16th century.

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corzine

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2007, 08:13:21 AM »

OK
I just read on the jewish encyclopaedia. www.jewishencyclopedia.com.

It sazs that the vowels from adonai were put there on YWHW by the masoretes after all. 

It was supposed to indicate that some say "adonai" out loud when reading, but the christians i.e. Leo X's guy, didn't know that or something and read it as it stands, which is approximately Jehovah.
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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 08:27:23 AM »

There's no rule against it, if that's what you mean.  ;)
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shalom

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2007, 08:55:55 AM »

OK
I just read on the jewish encyclopaedia. www.jewishencyclopedia.com.

It sazs that the vowels from adonai were put there on YWHW by the masoretes after all. 

It was supposed to indicate that some say "adonai" out loud when reading, but the christians i.e. Leo X's guy, didn't know that or something and read it as it stands, which is approximately Jehovah.
Great.
SJ -- can we write hebrew in here?



Keep in mind that the Nikkud were used in the Qere section of the manuscript and not part of the main body of text.  Qere = footnote section in most Christian bibles.  In Hebrew writings, Qere can run along the entire border (top, bottom and both sides).  The Sefer Torah has no such Qere section or nikkun nor trope (chanting instructions - looks a bit like Nikkud).

As you said, the Leo X guy took sidebar information - in this case, direction for substitution and created a new word - a word that is not Hebrew.

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corzine

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2007, 10:17:08 AM »

I don't think that's right.  Without going back again to read the article on the JE, this was my impression.  Does it make sense to you?
The qere runs in the margins, and contains variant readings, i.e. other possible pointings, suspected corrections, stuff like that.  The vowel pointing was put into each line of text by the masoretes, and that's where they pointed YHWH like Adonai.  It was supposed to be an indicator that YWHW should be read "Adonai".  Leo's guy didn't realize that and tried to pronounce it, thus Jehovah.
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shalom

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2007, 10:40:12 AM »

I don't think that's right.  Without going back again to read the article on the JE, this was my impression.  Does it make sense to you?
The qere runs in the margins, and contains variant readings, i.e. other possible pointings, suspected corrections, stuff like that.  The vowel pointing was put into each line of text by the masoretes, and that's where they pointed YHWH like Adonai.  It was supposed to be an indicator that YWHW should be read "Adonai".  Leo's guy didn't realize that and tried to pronounce it, thus Jehovah.


I think we are saying the same thing - I'm just pointing out that the individual used a 'sidebar' notation to develop the word - not the "Kethiv" (sacred preserved writing) portion.  Sefer Torah only contains "Kethiv".   The "Qere" can also contain commentary - and as in the case of the Talmud, commentary can be found on all four sides of the border of the actual "Kethiv". 

Bottom line, the word Jehovah a Christian invention.  No Jew was ever stoned for saying Jehovah (contrary to Monty Python's Life of Brian).
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corzine

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2007, 09:10:00 AM »

Well, I'll grant you you're bottom line.  "Jehovah" was a Christian invention, that is, error.  But, the vowel pointings, including those on YHWH, aren't part of the qere.  The qere is in the margins, the vowels are in the text.  What you have on YHWH (i've done some further reading to refresh all of this) is a Qere Perpetuum, that is, through the false pointing on YHWH, with the Adonai vowels, the indicate that the "to be read" (=qere) isn't indicated in the margin, but should just be known by the reader.  So, that means that it wasn't a sidebar notation, but the actual in-text vowels that threw of the christian back in the 16th century.  It would throw off any reader today who didn't realize that those vowels are supposed to tip him off to a qere perpetuum, especially because there is no sidebar note (qere) there.
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shalom

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2007, 09:27:06 AM »

.....  The qere is in the margins, the vowels are in the text.  ....


There are no vowel notation in a present day Sefer Torah,  nor any Sefer Torah scrolls that I have seen myself (the oldest being 300 years old - not that far back). There are in the Chumash. So I checked out the Leningrad Codex on-line and will agree, that they did have the vowel notations in the text.  I was surprised actually.  Thanks for the education.

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corzine

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2007, 10:14:38 AM »

Yeah.  I knew that they even today don't print the vowels in a torah scroll, but i confess, i have a hard time imagining what it must be like to read that.
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Zagzagel

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Re: The "-" in G-d.
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2009, 07:38:04 PM »

G-d gave Israel specific instructions on how to take the land

I remember hearing a message on this once in my youth.. I forgot to bring this up when I first responded to this thread.

The word was that God was the one to drive these other people out by natural means.. not to kill.. but it turns out that the people of God in that era would have it another way.... and so God gave them the desires of their heart.  Hmmm... somehow I cannot but think this/these wants caused these children of God more problems than should have concerning their future?  Hmmm..

Eye for eye?  Tooth for tooth? Perhaps?  Not quite sure yet but I notice a pattern here.

Just thinking out loud for the moment.

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