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Author Topic: You don't believe in God.  (Read 15199 times)

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Heretic

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You don't believe in God.
« on: September 12, 2005, 06:58:58 PM »

Very few people believe in God.  

Now billions of people may say[/b] they believe in God, but very few people actually do.  If people genuinely believe they would live every minute of every day in support of that belief.  The rich would give away their wealth to the needy. Everyone would be just frantic trying to determine which religion was the true one. No one could be comfortable in the thought they just might have picked the wrong religion and blundered into eternal d--nation, or bad reincarnation or separation from their God or some other crazy consequence. People would dedicate their entire lives converting others to their particular brand of religion.  

A belief in God would require 100% obsessive devotion, influencing every single waking moment of their lives of this brief life on earth.  But none of these billions of people who profess belief in God live their lives in this fashion, save for a very few.  The majority  believe in the usefulness of their beliefs, an earthly and practical utility, but they have no belief in any underlying reality.

They say they believe because pretending to believe is nessasary to gain the benefits of religion. They tell other people they believe and do believer-like things, like read their holy books and pray, but they don
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Zagzagel

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2005, 08:35:14 PM »

Now that was a provocative line of thought...not new, mind you...but still interesting....and always will be. :wink:
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jeep

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read this
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2005, 04:57:27 PM »

Noone is going to help you, certainly not god, get over it and get on with your short life. seriously, do u think praying works? it's all in your head! your brain is a powerful device, use it! don't let others think for you
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Anthony Horvath

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2005, 05:02:10 PM »

Even if prayer was 'all in your head' that wouldn't change whether its effective or not.  You seem to be thinking of prayer as some sort of vending machine.  Two prayers in, results out.

Anyway, Harry, I agree.  With some caveats, but I agree.
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Heretic

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2005, 06:02:13 PM »

Noone is going to help you, certainly not god, get over it and get on with your short life. seriously, do u think praying works? it's all in your head! your brain is a powerful device, use it! don't let others think for you


Where did that come from?!  Me thinks you're in the wrong thread Mr. Jeep.

Ahhh.... johnny agrees with me. With a little bit of admonition. But what is it that has you cautious?
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I am perfectly happy to say that gods are a logical possibility. There is just no reasonable evidence to license such a belief. --Copernicus

Anthony Horvath

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2005, 06:23:12 PM »

'caveats.'

Meaning, I would need to make some modifications to what you said before I could really accept it.

HA!  Hit and run post!
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Heretic

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2005, 05:54:08 PM »

Ahhh... Thou mentith a qualification or explanation.

Ok.

Hit and runner you.
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If there are no Atheists in foxholes then WTF was I doing there?!

 Certainty of death, small chance of success? What are we waiting for?! --Gimli the Dwarf

I am perfectly happy to say that gods are a logical possibility. There is just no reasonable evidence to license such a belief. --Copernicus

TheAtheistHeratic

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2005, 03:35:19 PM »

classical
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." (Washington, D.C., April 1999) [2]

"One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." (ibid.)
[edit]

Both quotes of Steven Weinberg

Stathei

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Agreed
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2005, 12:05:59 AM »

I'm an atheist, but if I suddenly became certain that there was a God/Jesus/heaven/hell I would quit my job and dedicate myself to spreading the word! Why are so many "Christians" so un Christ-like?
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Heretic

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2005, 06:29:15 AM »

Welcome fellow Atheist to Sntjohnny.com! Glad to have ya.

To answer your query, it is because, as stated above, they really have no belief in any underlying reality of what they claim to believe.

Check the date of that original post. Have you noticed that not a one has came forward and attempted to refute what what posted? Nope, not a one.

This is because they do actually realize their professed belief is superficial at best and they, at some level, believe all the different religious believers don't really believe anymore than they do.

What you described as what you would do, if you suddenly were absolutely positively sure of the underlying reality of any religious belief, is not just something you would do, it is something you would have to do.
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Silly Christians. Myths are for kids! [baby

If there are no Atheists in foxholes then WTF was I doing there?!

 Certainty of death, small chance of success? What are we waiting for?! --Gimli the Dwarf

I am perfectly happy to say that gods are a logical possibility. There is just no reasonable evidence to license such a belief. --Copernicus

Stathei

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2005, 11:53:58 AM »

You realise, Heretic, that they all think that we, at some level, believe in God? I've been accused of "protesting too much" when I profess my disbelief!
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Anthony Horvath

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2005, 12:14:24 PM »

Can't even honestly do a hit and run post without it being misinterpreted.  :(

Caveat time.

It does not follow that quitting one's job etc is the obvious way to go if you are a believer.

Its DEFINATELY the case that true belief in God should have a number of outward expressions.  Some of these certainly will be 'selling all' or what not.  At least for some.

However, Christian theism in particular is plenty open to what we might call a more 'laid back' approach.  Since Christian theism has the scriptures as their primary source of authoritative comments about how God wants us to behave, we cannot dismiss what these documents say.  And if we find that Christians are sincerely obeying these texts in the belief that they are acting as God would want, your blanket insinuations don't have the same merit that you wish they did.

For example, 1 Cor. 7:17 says, "Nevertheless, each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him.  This is the rule in all the churches... Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him.....Brothers, each man, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation God called him to."

This rationale is further elaborated and discussed in this text.

The Christian Scriptures also emphatically describe the church as Christ's body, with different members.  Each member has its own gifts, its own abilities, its own talents, its own passions, etc, etc.  Christianity embraces individuality, while at the same time putting individuality in a healthy context.

A person who decides to be a big time business executive is not necessarily in defiance of his faith.  He may in fact be very devoted to God, as we'd expect the rest of his life to show, including his conduct as a businessman.  Especially if he was not originally a Christian, but became one after becoming a big time exec, if he really trusts the Scriptures he WON'T do what you think he should do.  Rather, he'll be responsible and stay in his position.

On the other side of it, there are literally hundreds of thousands of people that have actually done what you make sound like no one does (except Islamic extremists).  I have two friends that are currently missionaries in civil-war infested regions in Africa.  Many of my friends are making peanuts as Christian teachers or pastors.  I was only until last January among them.   That's just my circle in my one little denomination.  Perhaps you need to hang out in my circle, some.

All that said, I bitterly despise the overall apathy in the Christian churches.  I cannot deny that many people are just going through the motions.  I cannot deny my bitterness that some people in the Christian churches think that Christian workers SHOULD work for peanuts.  This is an obvious reality that cannot be denied, but it doesn't follow that there aren't many many exceptions who have really given their all, whether on the mission field or in their local place of employment.
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Stathei

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2005, 12:56:03 PM »

Thanks for the reply Stj. I was just stating what I would do if I suddenly "found God". I certainly would not expect all Christians to down tools and go on a mission! I do find it strange, however, that many conservative Christians I know are the antithesis of what "Jesus Would Do", were he to exist. They can be an extremely closed minded uncharitable bunch, as I am sure you would agree. How is this compatible with a belief in the God of infinite wisdom and understanding? It isn't.
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Anthony Horvath

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2005, 01:23:27 PM »

Yea, I can't speak for them.  As I have opportunity, I confront them.
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Stathei

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2005, 03:15:45 PM »

I'm glad you confront them - if I do, as an atheist, they find it terribly offensive, so I don't bother any more. The fact that they think my kind are subhuman doesn't help  :D  !
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TheAtheistHeratic

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2005, 03:26:41 PM »

I crashed christian prayer meeting at my public  high school.  Because of me some people no longer believe god exist.  Bad thing though is i made a christian friend of mine think.  I think he is having his period again.
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." (Washington, D.C., April 1999) [2]

"One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." (ibid.)
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KnIgHtSrEpUbLic

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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2005, 09:58:20 PM »

I'm not gonna get into a huge argument, but doesn't it make sense that if you are a christian executive bigshot surrounded by a bunch of non-christians, that you have been set in a position to tell them about your faith? Makes sense to me that there are alot of atheists in the united states, not just in other countries, so I don't understand your statement about christians ministering their entire lives? Am I wrong? If a religion is right then people everywhere need to be reached, including here in the U.S. Oh, and also most of the people don't welcome christianity with open arms, just like you, so coming as a missionary wouldn't be very effective. But I think working on it gradually, asking questions and making them think, pretty much just spending time with them, they might be more open to suggestions?
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Little bit of this little bit of that, mainly end of the times/Revelation arguments.

Anthony Horvath

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2005, 10:24:07 PM »

If you didn't want to get into a huge argument, you've come to the wrong place.  ;)
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Tony N

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2005, 06:43:39 PM »

If Atheism were true I'd quit my job and do nothing but try to get people to believe in nothing.
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Did God say that He "will have all mankind to be saved" or that He "will NOT have all mankind to be saved? (1Tim.2:4-6]
Did God say He IS the Saviour of all mankind, or that He "is NOT the Saviour of all mankind? (1Tim.4:10)


Well?
Are we told to "charge and teach these things" or are we told "NOT to charge and teach these things"? (1Tim.4:10,11).


Well? Are we?

Anthony Horvath

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You don't believe in God.
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2005, 07:58:37 PM »

Good slant, Tony.

If I were an atheist, I'd rape and pillage.
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